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Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

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Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#731
Have you tried applying to research universities as a developer or IT technician? They typically offer good benefits, health insurance, but are much lower on the pay scale than FAANGs or startups and may have a lower entry bar.

I've interviewed quite a few people at 2 FAANGs and other places. If you really don't know what went wrong with your technical interviews, we can try to have a mock coding interview over Zoom using collabedit, and I'll give you my candid feedback.

To clarify, I can't hire you for anything, this won't have anything to do with my employer, nor am I promising that this will help you in any way.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#732

Have you tried talking with a recruiting agency? I notice you've mostly applied at household-name companies, many of which are very competitive. The majority of the tech jobs out there are not at companies you've ever heard of. Recruiters (third-party, not in-house) are motivated to find you something that's a good fit because they get commission (from the company) based on you getting hired. They'll coach you, help…

Can you recommend any good third party recruiting agencies for tech?

I've had pretty good experiences with Hired before. Coming out of a product consulting background, I wasn't sure I was going to have the requisite experience to transition to an in-house role, but they found several leads for me and I ended up landing a gig with a significantly higher starting salary than I expected.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#733

Your writing is not strong, i can tell you did not attend college. Written communication is important in tech. Your applying to those companies with 0 experience or college degree is unrealistic. The entry level is extremely competitive and you have nothing to make you interesting to hire. They get thousands of applications for those jobs. You are still young, plenty of time to learn, but I recommend taking a step ba…

Not to be argumentative. But yes, I did attend college. Send me a email, and I'll send you an email from my college email address (Hasn't been deactivited yet). I can send you my college transcript if that helps.. Well, I did get hired by IBM as a programmer so... I've contributed to a GNU open source project.. So I feel that I am qualifed for a entry level developer/SecEng/Security Analyst role. I went above my boss…

Hi Snakedoctor. I've been quite fascinated by this thread. I have a small piece of feedback for you, as someone who's interviewed about 200-300 engineers over my career I've talked to a lot of people and feel like I have at least something of value to add.

I hope you're not offering these sorts of hyperbolic "proofs" of your competency to your interviewers, like you've done here. I've seen a few comments from you like this. Anyone who feels the need to go that far out of their way to prove how smart they are... probably aren't as smart as they think they are. It also does come off as narcissistic.

I get that you have accomplished some cool things in your career so far, but you have to let people evaluate those accomplishments for themselves. They may be very impressive to you, but might not make the slightest difference in the context of the role you're applying for. If people ask about them, be ready to tell. If they don't ask, don't go out of your way to point them out, they're not pertinent to the role. They're on your CV, that's enough.

You do a lot of pointing these accomplishments out (I worked for IBM / I contribute to GNU / I went to college / I got this and that job), but... here you are. Unemployed. Which only leaves two possible explanations; You're either not being forthcoming about your accomplishments (exaggerating them or simply lying), or there's something else, something very negative that means that despite your achievements, you still can't hold a job.

So, you have to be brutally honest with yourself and ask yourself; What is that thing? Only you can answer that question.

Finally, I want to give you a reality check on those accomplishments. They might not be as large as you think. Big, noteworthy accomplishments take years to complete. Completing a masters degree, getting a PhD, working up to a senior position in a company, learning a language, raising a child, building a house. It sounds like most of your achievements did not require the investment of time, but rather are trophies to commemorate your greatness. Companies want people who persevere, and get stuff done, and stick with it. The type of accomplishments you've mentioned show none of that, and your career progression shows the complete opposite.

I hope you make something constructive out of my comments, and use them to improve your approach to interview. In short, I'd recommend a more humble approach, apply for a role suitable to your level, don't try to outsmart the interviewer, or your co-workers when you get hired, and fulfill the job you've been assigned, not the one you wish you had. So no level-jumping over your bosses to make smart comments; that won't help you... I speak from experience, and it took me a long time to understand that a good employee is just someone who makes their managers life easier, by completing their tasks and making sure stuff gets done.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP asked for candid feedback, and told us not to hold back. I myself added a caveat to my post to address your very concern. Is there something more that you think I should have done? (BTW I agree I'm reading a lot into his post, Sherlock Holmes style, but without confirmation one way or the other, its hard to say if I'm on target. In any event, I do not believe that the OP would share your umbrage, given his pos…

Yeah you should have given them advice on how to land a gig and not diagnosed them with NPD. I see where you're coming from and I agree it might be useful for OP to work on how they communicate, but that should be between them and a therapist.

There are a few assumptions that are false. For one, I am not a doctor, and this is not a diagnoses. It is explicitly an opinion based on (very) thin evidence. I agree they should see a therapist, if possible. I would not normally be so blunt, but the OP asked.

But the primary false thing I want to address is the tacit assertion that "Telling someone they have NPD traits is a personal attack." I understand that assumption because, sadly, accusation of personality disorder has become a common style of personal attack. It's very similar, actually, to the classic status of "homosexuality" - once a pejoritive, now mostly just a fact. And I'm not sure if you noticed, but HN has a LOT of psychology-related content. As a group people here seem to show a lot of admirable compassion and empathy for each other's vulnerabilities. I think it's a remarkable feature of the place, and I hope you can take my words in that context. NPD is quite common in the world, in our field, and its entirely posssible to be a good person who struggles with NPD.

Your protective instinct speaks well of you! But you may need to reassess whether or not I actually attacked the OP, given his request and the context of my response.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#735
post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What jobs inquire about your financial history? That seems a little dystopian. Can't get a handle on your finances because you don't have a steady job, better not give them a steady job!

I was massively broke for a long time, and I can speak to my experience in the USA. I was over 200K USD in debt at one point. [1] I was behind on everything, and then declared bankruptcy. The only time I would have needed to worry about it was if I wanted to get a securities license (e.g. become a financial advisor), or if I needed a security clearance (e.g. work on top secret project). The real risk I faced was the…

This sounds so sad:

> and had an expensive bicycle accident.

I mean, the health aspect was probably bad, but the financial implication is even worse :-(

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#736

I'm a software engineer that runs a technical recruiting company. I worked at Microsoft and Netflix for a decade. Email me at robert at facet dot net. I will interview you and tell you why you're not getting hired.

This is refreshing! no grammar analysis, no inferring about mental disorders, no bragging about high ground you are on, not calling creepy, no calling OP over in his head... to me it feels like people are having a field day at OP's expense. OP: I suck!.. 999 people: AHAHA YOU DO BECAUSE YOU SUCK.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#737
post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was massively broke for a long time, and I can speak to my experience in the USA. I was over 200K USD in debt at one point. [1] I was behind on everything, and then declared bankruptcy. The only time I would have needed to worry about it was if I wanted to get a securities license (e.g. become a financial advisor), or if I needed a security clearance (e.g. work on top secret project). The real risk I faced was the…

This sounds so sad: > and had an expensive bicycle accident. I mean, the health aspect was probably bad, but the financial implication is even worse :-(

It was a period of many depressing thoughts for sure. I wouldn't wish that struggle on anyone.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#738
post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'll give you mock 30 minute interview (I've hired countless engineers, designers, PMs and other roles in the last 20+ years)" This is an incredibly generous offer and I hope it gets done, because it would BY FAR the most valuable thing that the OP needs.

I spent almost 2hrs with snakedoctor this evening. He's a smart young man who just needs some pointers and advice as he doesn't really have anyone around him who has experience of landing and keeping a job in tech.

snakedoctor, I'm not sure you'll read this, but on the off chance you do, you just got at least $500 worth of interviewing advice. More like $1000-1500+. You'd better make good use of it!

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#739
post #5

Need more details to give you a more accurate feedback. How long you have been working/in the industry in general ? It seems like you have done a few things over the years but don't really seem to have stuck to something that made you a specialist or someone worth hiring. Being brutal here but making assumptions. Do you quit a lot ? Do you have any criminal records that you are not aware of ? Are you too opinionated…

I've quit a lot. I haven't lasted anywhere longer than 2 months. I contribute a lot and then quit after I feel like I'm not getting appropriate compensation. Though I certainly agree that I need to stick with a job. I think ageism, and other biases are in place though. More years of experience I get the less disdained I will be I think. I don't think I'm a know it all. I'm only in my early 20s. I definitely have a lo…

You know what your compensation is going to be when you get the job offer. You agree to that offer, then 2 months later you say "oh I contributed a lot so you need to pay me more"?

Why do you feel like if you do more they have to pay you more? You agreed to give an employer 40 hours of your time to perform the responsibilities the job requires in exchange for an agreed upon, fixed amount of money. That's what the agreement between you and the employer is.

If you have other expectations, you should negotiate them before accepting the offer. Don't like the offer? Don't accept it. Once you accept it though, stick to your word, don't change the terms 2 months in because you feel like it.

Corporations just don't think the way you seem to - you don't get rewarded for A+ grades. You get the same paycheck. That's the default for most people at your level.

Don't set yourself up for failure by going into a job thinking you'll do more and get more money. You won't at first, and definitely not within 2 months. Maybe after 2 years as a promotion, but that means you have to work at the same company in the same position for 2+ years.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#740
post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'll give you mock 30 minute interview (I've hired countless engineers, designers, PMs and other roles in the last 20+ years)" This is an incredibly generous offer and I hope it gets done, because it would BY FAR the most valuable thing that the OP needs.

I spent almost 2hrs with snakedoctor this evening. He's a smart young man who just needs some pointers and advice as he doesn't really have anyone around him who has experience of landing and keeping a job in tech.

just wanted to say that you're a good person :)
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