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“My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

nautil.us

11–20 of 102 posts

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#11
post #8

> The only thing to add to that, where you have to be slightly careful, is if an animal hasn’t got strong genes. And then you interfere and you allow that animal to procreate. You could potentially be making the gene pool weaker and more susceptible to mange. That’s where you have to be a bit careful. It's interesting that we can talk about this in such an objective and rational way when it involves non-human animal…

I share your sentiment in the regard that it highlights an obvious difference between how we think about humans and animals. I think you probably know why applying darwinisim to human society is "extremely controversial".

On a side note, what constitutes "good genes" nowadays?

The ability to exploit finite natural resources (including human health and lives) in a maximally efficient way? Accumulating as much money as possible?

Would you prefer to reduce human population to a wealthy, healthy remainder and purge all people who cannot sustain themselves?

What does sustaining yourself mean in terms of "benefit to society"?

Is making money by burning fossil fuel - or facilitating and developing systems that (unnecessarily) burn more fossil fuel - a contribution to a "better human gene pool"?

Can sustaining yourself make life worse for others?

Would you approve eugenics, if yes, to what degree?

These are ethical questions as old as humanity.

Overcoming naive social darwinism is arguably one of the reasons that todays "civilized" society can even exist.

I appreciate your comment as a start for a discussion, but I also dislike the implications that I read into it.

People who earn obscene amounts of money and deplete natural resources hardly contribute to an improvement of the human gene pool.

And to me it seems that most people with physical or psychological handicaps that deem them "unfit" already are poor, die young and often don't procreate.

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#14

deleted

Huh? He only has one kid- a son, who appears in a lot of the movie diving with him. I'm no expert on the filmmaker's life, but I've not heard that he 'turned his back' on his wife. In fact, you can read her feelings about his relationship with the octopus here:

https://stories.seachangeproject.com/my-octopus-teacher-and-...

She ends by saying that she dives almost every day with the filmmaker.

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#15
post #10
post #8

> The only thing to add to that, where you have to be slightly careful, is if an animal hasn’t got strong genes. And then you interfere and you allow that animal to procreate. You could potentially be making the gene pool weaker and more susceptible to mange. That’s where you have to be a bit careful. It's interesting that we can talk about this in such an objective and rational way when it involves non-human animal…

Yea because humans aren't animals. Our behaviors haven't been dominated by our genes for quite some time.

Have you even met us?

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#17
post #10
post #8

> The only thing to add to that, where you have to be slightly careful, is if an animal hasn’t got strong genes. And then you interfere and you allow that animal to procreate. You could potentially be making the gene pool weaker and more susceptible to mange. That’s where you have to be a bit careful. It's interesting that we can talk about this in such an objective and rational way when it involves non-human animal…

Yea because humans aren't animals. Our behaviors haven't been dominated by our genes for quite some time.

I'm not OP but I don't think either of those statements is accurate.

We don't engage in eugenics and we do engage in medical care because people are more than animals and we value individual survival more than gene pool hygiene (might be the wrong term?)

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#18
post #8

> The only thing to add to that, where you have to be slightly careful, is if an animal hasn’t got strong genes. And then you interfere and you allow that animal to procreate. You could potentially be making the gene pool weaker and more susceptible to mange. That’s where you have to be a bit careful. It's interesting that we can talk about this in such an objective and rational way when it involves non-human animal…

I would look for sources of this in a conflict of interests. Most humans don't care about the fate of other species, as competition for resources is relatively rare. An exception is where animals can be turned into a resource to extract, with overgrown chickens as an example.

Whereas humans compete with other humans, and it's in one's interest to manipulate others to be less of competition, but more subservient instead. Even if the human who advocates for it doesn't benefit from it, their descendants will.

With conflicting interests at play, rational neutrality is hard to achieve.

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#19
post #8

> The only thing to add to that, where you have to be slightly careful, is if an animal hasn’t got strong genes. And then you interfere and you allow that animal to procreate. You could potentially be making the gene pool weaker and more susceptible to mange. That’s where you have to be a bit careful. It's interesting that we can talk about this in such an objective and rational way when it involves non-human animal…

Genetic Load https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_load

We take this on because we can leverage technology to improve lives.

We take this on because it might be one of the things that makes us human.

Re: “My Octopus Teacher” defied convention

#20
post #4

What's weird is that octopuses are not a social species. So it's a bit of a mystery how they evolved so high intelligence without having to outsmart other individuals of their own species constantly. It's theorethized that they have very rich environments and have to work very hard to hunt and to stay alive as they have no armor. But the puzzle still remains why their intelligence is similar at all to the one that ev…

I heard a theory that a large reason humans have complex brains is that we need them to do fine motor control with our hands and throw things accurately.

Similarly, a octopus probably needs a big brain to control all the muscles in its arms

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