Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#551

Post by devoutsalsa » Fri, Apr 16, 2021, 7:47 AM UTC

ehnto wrote: post #522

jart wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good comment with the right instinct but for the wrong reasons. The biggest red flag is struggling with personal finance. You can't get jobs like the ones he wants if you live beyond your means and constantly land in hot water with money because people who are like that are at risk of turning to evil to make ends meet.

What jobs inquire about your financial history? That seems a little dystopian. Can't get a handle on your finances because you don't have a steady job, better not give them a steady job!

I was massively broke for a long time, and I can speak to my experience in the USA. I was over 200K USD in debt at one point. [1] I was behind on everything, and then declared bankruptcy. The only time I would have needed to worry about it was if I wanted to get a securities license (e.g. become a financial advisor), or if I needed a security clearance (e.g. work on top secret project). The real risk I faced was the threat of making rent & feeding myself.

Just 5 years ago I was making 6000 USD per month and with almost 250K in debt, and ~50% of my income going to debt payments. Now I’ll be debt free in a couple months, and I have 12 months of savings in the bank & a rapidly growing retirement account! It’s super nice to feel this way, and it’s only been possible with a lot of hard work and even more luck.

[1] I lived way beyond my means, overestimated the value of my expensive education, and had an expensive bicycle accident.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#552

Post by chrisvalleybay » Fri, Apr 16, 2021, 7:48 AM UTC

aeoleonn wrote: post #448

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #211

As a hiring manager, the things that stand out to me in your post: - You said you quit a job at EA, quit a job at IBM, dropped out of college your freshman year. You may have valid reasons for leaving each of these, but you have to see this from the manager's perspective: You had 3 different great opportunities that all came to a dead end at the beginning of your career. You need an alternate narrative. - You talk ab…

First, OP: STOP CALLING YOURSELF UNHIREABLE. STOP WITH THE SELF-PITY-- Why? You can't simultaneously focus on two things: such as focusing pitying yourself while simultaneously focusing on building & completing your strategy. _____________________ WHATS THAT YOU SAY OP?!, you say you want to CONQUER THE ROMAN EMPIRE, but you only have a dozen pals WITH NERF GUNS? Yeah, guess how that'll work out :P Doesn't sound like…

You definitely came in from Reddit, that's for sure.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#553

Post by vbsteven » Fri, Apr 16, 2021, 7:48 AM UTC

tidenly wrote: post #548

glitchc wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Desperate is not equal to creepy. Try thinking from his perspective, he’s perilously close to hitting rock bottom and terrified of the prospect. A bit of compassion goes a long way.

Desperation does not give you the green light to do whatever you want to other people. Creepy is how you are perceived when you can't feel where that line is and step over it. Try thinking how their actions look from the receiving end, not just theirs.

Desperation does not greenlight creepy behaviour indeed. But keep in mind that a cohort of people does not have the necessary skills to know where the line is (some forms of autism for example).

Not having those skills can lead to situations where actions with genuine intent are perceived as creepy by the counter party.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#554

Post by jesterson » Fri, Apr 16, 2021, 7:49 AM UTC

aetherspawn wrote: post #229

rsweeney21 wrote: post #84

I'm a software engineer that runs a technical recruiting company. I worked at Microsoft and Netflix for a decade. Email me at robert at facet dot net. I will interview you and tell you why you're not getting hired.

If I ever met you, I'd buy you a coffee. You jumped straight in to help the OP without offering any kind of upfront diagnosis based on the very little information available. The traits are patience and humility. They're valuable and not often found.

Going through comments I almost lost faith into people who do something instead of judging. Apparently there are still some who appreciate it.

That's said, if you guys would have a coffee, I'd be honoured to join you, let alone cover related expenses

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#555

Post by Webox » Fri, Apr 16, 2021, 7:49 AM UTC

About security: It is NOT your responsibility to decide if things get fixed or not if you are not responsible for.

It is your responsibility to tell your manager (responsible person) what you found and what the impact is.

the responsible person will take the risk and risk assessment.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#556

Post by yoz-y » Fri, Apr 16, 2021, 7:51 AM UTC

jart wrote: post #502

kfogel wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to say that this was a kind, detailed, and thoughtful response -- beneficial to the OP, no doubt, but also probably to others. It was nice to be reminded that sometimes the Internet doesn't suck. Thanks for taking the time to write that reply.

It's a good comment with the right instinct but for the wrong reasons. The biggest red flag is struggling with personal finance. You can't get jobs like the ones he wants if you live beyond your means and constantly land in hot water with money because people who are like that are at risk of turning to evil to make ends meet.

TF? Aiming for large companies can be actually helpful in this case because they will often shell out money for your relocation and may even help with housing before your first few salaries kick in.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#557

Post by maccard » Fri, Apr 16, 2021, 7:51 AM UTC

pcthrowaway wrote: post #342

snakedoctor wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw some people in Austin who did gig work like uber etc. I've thought about it. I'm a very anxious driver though. I've though about working in a Amazon warehouse. There's one near me. But they don't get health benefits for 3+ months. Have to do intense manual labor etc. EA QA was the most toxic place I ever worked at. Belittling people, thinking that all testers are incompetent etc. I have back pain, and dental is…

Also, forgot to mention, I was recently working "QA" for 5 years. Transitioned into that from full-stack webdev and am back in webdev again. QA in my case was actually very technical, required deep knowledge of web application deployment mechanisms, occasional debugging of web app code, a variety of languages, and writing tons of bash and CI configuration, some tests, and automating cloud things. I won't lie and say…

QA in video games is not an engineering role. It's usually a butts-in-seat role where you're expected to dilligently follow a task list without deviating in the slightest. You're expected to follow the checklist, on repeat. If you have initiative, save it for after work.

More senior qa roles will be designing test suites, maybe even developing them, but entry level game QA is not going to scratch a dev itch.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#558

Post by chrisvalleybay » Fri, Apr 16, 2021, 7:52 AM UTC

What are you like as a person? How do you present yourself in these meetings? What kind of values do you exude? Do you first listen and try to deeply understand the interviewer and what they're looking for – or do you nervously fill every void in the conversation with something? Your resumé definitely is important, but once you are face to face with someone; how do you employ charm? It might come off as a fad but https://dansilvestre.com/how-to-win-friends-and-influence-pe... (summary of the book) might be of help. Good luck!

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#559

Post by wespiser_2018 » Fri, Apr 16, 2021, 7:57 AM UTC

From my impression of this post, and your comments, you have a non-traditional upbringing, a nonconformist streak, and a problem committing to things. None of these are bad, but they aren't setting you up for success in a corporation that tries to de-risk it's hiring process, and find people who will fit the culture and make contributions for years. I think it's really important for you to understand that the world doesn't owe you anything, certainly not a pay raise after 2 months, and it's best to be humble. Being homeschooled gave you a huge leg up in developing dev skills and allowed you to get an IBM internship, but now the rest of your age group has essentially caught up.

However, there is still a massive demand for software engineers, and those with technical talent, you just need to find a way in to the industry given that you essentially "have no past", or serious work history. One option might be to do a FE bootcamp on an ISA. I would also suggest making open source contributions regularly: pick a language and toolchain and start contributing. Might I recommend Haskell or Lisp? (a personal fav) This is all the standard advice, and there is no reason it couldn't work for you if you give it enough time. Also, as a Knuth check holder, don't waste too much time reading Knuth when you aren't applying it to a specific problem, or doing academic research.

I work with some non-college degree devs, so It's definitely possible, but you need to be writing a ton of code, and pretty much be all about that. Longer term, I think your mindset/experience/history would be well suited to founding a company, but I'd strongly suggest, getting technical experience for a few years at a company first. Best of luck.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#560

Post by posthiatal1 » Fri, Apr 16, 2021, 7:57 AM UTC

Would you like to try a mock interview over Zoom or something? I need one as well. We can give one another feedback. I'm unusual in my own way. I was successful early in my career (graduate of a top program, with Research Honors; and twice won awards, each with extra stock options, during 5 years at the fastest-growing Fortune 500 of the 90s) but burned out. Since then, my experience has been spotty, though I was a Lead Software Engineer once. I'm still trying to get back onto my horse. Anyway, I am now more interested in people and our quirks than in systems and code. The son of two social scientists, I viewed reading other people's code, and trying to decipher the intentions and guess the most-likely flaws, as "an exercise in abnormal psychology." I can give you my read on how I think you're likely to be perceived.