Earlier quoted context omitted.
"I'll give you mock 30 minute interview (I've hired countless engineers, designers, PMs and other roles in the last 20+ years)" This is an incredibly generous offer and I hope it gets done, because it would BY FAR the most valuable thing that the OP needs.
I spent almost 2hrs with snakedoctor this evening. He's a smart young man who just needs some pointers and advice as he doesn't really have anyone around him who has experience of landing and keeping a job in tech.
Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
541–550 of 875 posts
Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
#542As a hiring manager, the things that stand out to me in your post: - You said you quit a job at EA, quit a job at IBM, dropped out of college your freshman year. You may have valid reasons for leaving each of these, but you have to see this from the manager's perspective: You had 3 different great opportunities that all came to a dead end at the beginning of your career. You need an alternate narrative. - You talk ab…
>>You said you quit a job at EA, quit a job at IBM, dropped out of college your freshman year. You may have valid reasons for leaving each of these, but you have to see this from the manager's perspective: You had 3 different great opportunities that all came to a dead end at the beginning of your career. You need an alternate narrative. Things like this are very important. Job hopping is a giant red flag for lots of…
I’m saying this only for people who are in utter shit jobs and have the talent to find another one, but are afraid to be classified a job hopper.
Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
#543Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a good comment with the right instinct but for the wrong reasons. The biggest red flag is struggling with personal finance. You can't get jobs like the ones he wants if you live beyond your means and constantly land in hot water with money because people who are like that are at risk of turning to evil to make ends meet.
So your advice is "just stop being poor"?
Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
#544Earlier quoted context omitted.
As someone who was also home schooled and had problems with social interactions in my early twenties the best advice I can give is join several clubs that does things in person. You MUST learn how to make friends, how to not upset people, how to be comfortable in social situations and empathy. To do this I would recommend that you force yourself into social situations regularly. Afterwards spend some time thinking ab…
I've tried out meetup.com and went to one meetup. It was ok. I felt a little uncomfortable though. They solicited for my name, and email to be added to the Slack. There was a lot of recreational clubs etc at my college. I tried rock climbing, and liked it. There wasn't a lot of social interaction with rock climbing though. I went to a party in Austin. Chatted with strangers etc. Wasn't really sure what else to talk a…
Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
#545There are many MANY small tech companies out there, ranging from 2-3 employees to maybe 100. At one of my jobs we worked from the owner's mother's garage; we had lunch with his mother every day. It's not shiny and glamorous like Google or Apple, but it's honest work and plenty interesting. I sure wasn't bored and had a great time there.
Just go on Stack Overflow jobs, or Monster, or whatever is in your local area, find software dev jobs that seem interesting and send in your CV with a decent cover letter. You probably never heard of that particular company and that's just fine.
Because quite frankly it looks like right now you're trying to star in a big-budget Hollywood movie when all you've got is one B-movie on your credits.
Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
#546There are many rants on social media right now from people who love hating on the meme that you need passion for your job. They are right ofc that this is overrated (and the point of where HR people sound like hallmark cards peddling passion as a requirement for the job also makes my stomach turn). But if it weren't for passion I'd have nothing in life and no desire to achieve anything.
It's also not enough to use passion to get out of where you are but it often is the first step in initiating needed change. Once you have it (don't be too eager to announce it but let it be your engine). Passion helped me to put up with a lot of other crap in life because it's like blinders on a horse that make you power through the shit while others say it can't be done. It allows you to be stubborn when you need to be (but others telling you "you can't afford its luxury"). It will also help keep your eyes on the ball when the road takes you on a detour. The best trips usually do, or as Mike Tyson said "everyone has a plan till they get punched". So better be great at rolling with the punches.
The problems you describe means you're the underdog that has to work 10x the normal rate and people like to hate on them because it provides them the contrast that they need to feel good themselves. They point their petty fingers and say "look how well I'm doing in comparison", and you need to assume many will do that instead of really helping you. You can sense the tone of some in this thread. Be sure many IRL will also get hung up on that you tried to spoof the number. But really nobody gives a shit as long as you don't tell them. We all fuck up, so move on, do better next time. And don't listen to anyone but yourself (and below is the reason why this is crucial).
People in your situation don't really know any more what their self* wants in the long run and are forced to take the next best opportunity (anything really because as your environment tells you: you can't afford to be picky).
You may think you're not even in a position to say no to anything. Any crap somebody offers you will need to be "evaluated" as it were "the deal of your life"! And this is what wastes your time and what may cost you dearly, there is nothing more expensive than being poor (having no options). So be careful with any and all advise and with the opportunities that you consider taking and reject them when needed. This is a mindfuck because how could you when you seem to have no choice: but you always have choice! And as others here have said: take a step back (meaning step out of your comfort zone and accept a detour). You still got the best years in front of you but it depends on the things you set in motion _today_. Many don't have that luxury anymore (even they talk a big game).
If you can't get your foot in the door try to find something that allows you to survive, but where you can also carve out just enough time on working on a side project (or whatever you decide tickles your fancy. It doesn't need to be work related - that might come anyway automatically[1]) and build a social network from there (because you are forced but more importantly because you want to and it feels right).
It might take months or it could take years. But the point is that you keep moving. Sometimes quite literally. You can optimize your luck by packing light and move to another city or country to do whatever you find. It's perhaps gonna suck very often but it also gonna be an adventure, and more important, you'll find that you're learning something new and expand your social circle. So even when the job sucks you know that it's not for nothing (you still got a hobby or social circle to maintain a healthy self*).
Be patient with yourself and don't hate people for considering you "toxic" right now. Meaningful (professional)relationships will only happen if you are 100% at peace with what you do (and are able to say NO to 9 out of 10 things without losing sleep). People (even the dumb ones) are experts at knowing when somebody is in a rut (which means only the creeps and vampires stick around so be cautious). Build a relationship with yourself again first. The rest will come from that. (it can _never_ be the other way around and if you try it might land you in a world of pain and misery)
Also forget romantic relationships for now (if there are any). Put yourself first. Don't limit yourself in this situation to the demands of a relationship and don't expect from others that they stay with you during all the changes you might have to put yourself through. Hope this doesn't come across rough, and apologies for it only being generic feedback :)
Hunter S. Thompson’s Letter on Finding Your Purpose and Living a Meaningful Life https://fs.blog/2014/05/hunter-s-thompson-to-hume-logan/
If you want drop me an email. Best of luck!
Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
#547Earlier quoted context omitted.
I get the impression it is common for technically oriented people to think of salespeople, marketers, and recruiters as manipulative. In your view, what are some ways you think about the difference between persuasion and manipulation? I've been reading about this very topic in the context of media persuasion.
"The scholar, having to encounter doubts and difficulties on all hands, [...] learns to take nothing for granted; least of all, to make an assumption of his own superior merits. [...] It takes years of patient toil and devoted enthusiasm to master any art or science; and after all, the success is doubtful. He infers that other triumphs must be prepared in like manner at an humble distance: he cannot conceive that any…
That was before universities had PR departments.
Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
#548Brutally candid advice? You sound like a creep. Am I reading it right here, you spoofed your number to talk to executives? In the best case, they'll assume you're a pen-tester; but more likely, you're blacklisted from those companies now. I wish there was, like, short and simple advice that I could give you to not be a creep. I just tried to google that, and I'm not finding a good clear resource. Like most social ski…
Desperate is not equal to creepy. Try thinking from his perspective, he’s perilously close to hitting rock bottom and terrified of the prospect. A bit of compassion goes a long way.
Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
#549Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've quit a lot. I haven't lasted anywhere longer than 2 months. I contribute a lot and then quit after I feel like I'm not getting appropriate compensation. Though I certainly agree that I need to stick with a job. I think ageism, and other biases are in place though. More years of experience I get the less disdained I will be I think. I don't think I'm a know it all. I'm only in my early 20s. I definitely have a lo…
> I haven't lasted anywhere longer than 2 months. Friend, this here's the problem. Consider that a working environment _when it's going well_ is a mutually supporting cooperation of individuals to some basic end. Could be you're creating something new, could be you're maintaining something but, the big thing to understand is, you're doing it with other people and you're all relying on one another _to do your share_.…
Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
#550Your writing is not strong, i can tell you did not attend college. Written communication is important in tech. Your applying to those companies with 0 experience or college degree is unrealistic. The entry level is extremely competitive and you have nothing to make you interesting to hire. They get thousands of applications for those jobs. You are still young, plenty of time to learn, but I recommend taking a step ba…
Perhaps my personal bias, but for a long time I was under impression that tech roles companies are hiring people based on their capacity to actually do the job. It's not social studies for G's sake.
Over the course of my life I've come across extremely talented people, who yea, do lack social skills , not putting fake smiles and whatnot. Few of them were the best hires I did.