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Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

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Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#121

Your writing is not strong, i can tell you did not attend college. Written communication is important in tech. Your applying to those companies with 0 experience or college degree is unrealistic. The entry level is extremely competitive and you have nothing to make you interesting to hire. They get thousands of applications for those jobs. You are still young, plenty of time to learn, but I recommend taking a step ba…

Not to be argumentative. But yes, I did attend college. Send me a email, and I'll send you an email from my college email address (Hasn't been deactivited yet). I can send you my college transcript if that helps.. Well, I did get hired by IBM as a programmer so... I've contributed to a GNU open source project.. So I feel that I am qualifed for a entry level developer/SecEng/Security Analyst role.

I went above my bosses head because they did not remedy the issue, and weren't going to.. The SVP guy that I did contact told me that would be willing to vouch for me that I did find a security vuln etc. He was actually quite receptive. I shouldn't of even had to, or felt like I had to go above my bosses head. There should've been a security email I could've emailed. That was at EA. At Amazon I emailed the VP in charge of the anti-fraud system since it might've taken longer for the blue team to send it to the right folks. But yeah, I do agree with you slighty on that.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#122
post #54

So far none of the replies has mentioned this, and it may be unpopular in HN, but: Seriously consider going back to school and finishing a degree. Although it's "known" that you don't really need a degree for a SW role, there are plenty of well established old school companies that will not consider you at all unless you have a degree. On the flip side, you'll get jobs more easily. A lot of interviewers who choose to…

I've thought about it. Community College, Deep Springs etc. I think autodidacticism is a better way to learn vs academic path. Though I didn't want to finish high school but I did.. So, it might be just one of those things that I'll have to suck up and just do. I disliked that I would have to take 2 years of core curriculum stuff before even being allowed to take major related courses. I had to reach out to instructo…

I always felt being enrolled in a community college was always a key differentiator for me as a candidate. Beyond being a stepping stone into a top 10 CS program for me, I feel like those lines on my resume communicate that I am just a super tenacious and scrappy person.

It is the highest ROI investment I have ever made in myself.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#123
Positively, you sound like a self starter and very good at figuring things out, including creative ways to break things. It does sound like there is a pattern to why your jobs have not been working out. One way to diagnose that would be to think about what it was like to manage you - how might have others seen you in a work setting? Pragmatically, I'd look for a recruiter who doesn't mind coaching a little, and in shopping for a recruiter, you may learn from your conversations with them.

I don't know about the "creep" feedback here, but it sounds like any experience learning how to be a good guy to work with would be helpful. I'd look at Joel Spolsky's writing as a guide to tech industry norms, or Laszlo Bock on trust in teams. Once you have the luxury of time, I would look for books or movies or shows that show problem solving teams in action, just to get some more insights from examples. Emphasis on "team". "Soul of a New Machine", by Tracy Kidder, wsa eye opening for me, though that's a picture of the industry from ~50 years ago. Ellen Ullman, too.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#124

Have you tried asking any of the jobs that rejected you're getting rejected? Honestly, just a guess, you're probably giving off bad interpersonal vibes/people don't really like talking to you. Half of interviewing is just being very personable/being able to talk comfortably with other people. Generally in this space (this space meaning those interested in tech/startups/etc) sometimes people struggle in this area but…

I've tried asking companies for feedback. Some respond, and some don't. I think that most don't due to legal reasons. I did move to Austin when I received a lump sum of money, and hanged with some people IRL. Some would ratify that I'm awkward lol. But there was a lot of good vibes while I was in Austin. Now that I'm back where I grew up I find that I'm more depressed, and surly. State goverment here is more Laissez-…

Another way around this is to not apply for the job. Find the hiring manager and ask them for advice/feedback on your experience/resume, that you value feedback more than consideration for any role. In YC we always reminded ourselves that if you ask for money, you get advice. Ask for advice, and you get money. I think this applies here. Get the feedback via email or writing so you can read it more than once or even share it with other people and have them help you interpret it for maximum growth. Ask people who you admire for advice and to look at your resume, experience, application, and invite them to be honest. And if you don’t have friends you admire (because as they say we’re the average of the 5 people with whom we spend the most time), expand your circle, finding ways to give to others with no expectation of anything in return.

You’ve started a great dialog with yourself. Congrats, and keep it going.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#125

Have you tried asking any of the jobs that rejected you're getting rejected? Honestly, just a guess, you're probably giving off bad interpersonal vibes/people don't really like talking to you. Half of interviewing is just being very personable/being able to talk comfortably with other people. Generally in this space (this space meaning those interested in tech/startups/etc) sometimes people struggle in this area but…

Many companies large enough to have HR and/or legal departments have rules specifically against providing feedback to candidates on why they were rejected.

This is definitely true but it doesn't hurt to ask. I've asked every time and gotten some really useful responses.

When I was young I interviewed at Microsoft and was rejected. I asked the recruiter for feedback. She talked me through some of the feedback from the interviewers and gave me advice for the future. It was really helpful.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#126
post #5

Need more details to give you a more accurate feedback. How long you have been working/in the industry in general ? It seems like you have done a few things over the years but don't really seem to have stuck to something that made you a specialist or someone worth hiring. Being brutal here but making assumptions. Do you quit a lot ? Do you have any criminal records that you are not aware of ? Are you too opinionated…

I've quit a lot. I haven't lasted anywhere longer than 2 months. I contribute a lot and then quit after I feel like I'm not getting appropriate compensation. Though I certainly agree that I need to stick with a job. I think ageism, and other biases are in place though. More years of experience I get the less disdained I will be I think. I don't think I'm a know it all. I'm only in my early 20s. I definitely have a lo…

> I haven't lasted anywhere longer than 2 months.

Friend, this here's the problem. Consider that a working environment _when it's going well_ is a mutually supporting cooperation of individuals to some basic end. Could be you're creating something new, could be you're maintaining something but, the big thing to understand is, you're doing it with other people and you're all relying on one another _to do your share_. Ageism, Southern accents (hidy, fellow Southerner) and other biases haven't got anything on this one problem: you quit. Two months in isn't anything, even if you are talented and, to be blunt about it, two months isn't enough time to develop anything but a surface level understanding of something. There's no way to look at a resume with a string of 2-month stints and think that you'll be around to _do your work_ and that'll impact the team.

Hell, a few years ago I did a very short stint -- something like six months -- at Unity, moved on to Dropbox with my team from Unity and then got fired from Dropbox within four months. At this point I had 15+ years in my career and when I was searching for jobs _everyone_ asked me to explain why I'd switched jobs so rapidly. It's just a big red flag, even if you're someone that has shown they'll come and do the work all the rest of your career.

> I contribute a lot...

This contradicts you working no more than two months. _You_ might feel like you contribute a lot but I would suggest that if you stuck out a job for a year and then considered what you'd got done in that year what you see as "a lot" now won't seem like much.

> and then quit after I feel like I'm not getting appropriate compensation.

Tell you what, in my heart of hearts I feel like everyone ought to make a living wage no matter how unstable of an employee they are and no matter how inflated their sense of their work is. But, in the US that's not the system we have. Your compensation is some function of the employer's sense of your worth derived from your past work history, what you negotiate for and a discounting based on your perceived risk to the employer. Someone that will not work for more than two months is a _very_ risky employee and will get a heavy discount on their compensation for the first year because of it, at least. You probably are getting appropriate compensation in this system of ours based on how unreliable you are.

It seems to me from what you've said here that you've dug yourself into a very deep hole. I don't know why you have done this, friend, but you have. If you're near homeless suggestions to do Bootcamps or finish schooling -- while _extremely_ valid, you should eventually do one of these things -- are probably too late in the game for you. I second recommendations to reach out to headhunters and land yourself any kind of gig and then stick with _whatever_ you get. Pay's going to be shit because you're a risky hire. Don't prove to be a risky hire. Keep doing good work, consistently. After a year, ask for a raise. See about finishing your schooling but DO NOT QUIT YOUR JOB. After a _few years_ start interviewing for another gig without quitting your job first. People are going to ask you about your resume of 2-month stints and you'll have to explain it as a thing you've grown out of, because if you get to this point you will have done.

Godspeed. My email's in my profile if any of this has struck a chord and you'd like to talk or what not.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#127
I play a key role in our hiring process. Shoot me an email, your resume (in word format so I can comment if necessary) and some times that work next week for 30-45 min chat (after 4pm ET best for me). Think of it as professional networking call and at the end I’ll be as candid and constructive as I can. Email is in my profile.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#129
You don't want to climb the ladder. What made you think you had a shot at all of those companies? One had a thing going at IBM/EA, you are much more hireable having a current job.

Unless you got an idea for the equivalent of a flamin hot cheetos, my advice is go climb it.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#130

Your writing is not strong, i can tell you did not attend college. Written communication is important in tech. Your applying to those companies with 0 experience or college degree is unrealistic. The entry level is extremely competitive and you have nothing to make you interesting to hire. They get thousands of applications for those jobs. You are still young, plenty of time to learn, but I recommend taking a step ba…

Given the relative lack of experience and lack of education I'm wondering how OP managed to get interviews at the likes of Google, FB, etc.
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