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Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

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Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#491

Post by snowwrestler »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #223
aphextron wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would second this, and also say get any degree. A real accredited CS BS degree is incredibly difficult and time consuming. But a BA can be knocked out in 2 years and makes you infinitely more employable on paper than just a high school graduate for any position.

I'm not sure any random BA can help these days. Anecdotally at least, one of the recurring news stories about Millenials is about how so many can't get jobs with their BA degrees. OP is probably better off going to Lambda School or a similar technical boot camp.

Anecdotally this is a popular idea, but it is surprisingly poorly supported by data. I did a deep dive on this a couple years ago, and there is actually little difference between early-career employment prospects for STEM and non-STEM bachelor degree holders.

I did not look at bachelors vs coding camp certificate.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#492

Post by blentz »

As someone who hires and also coaches people into entry level positions, your story is not unique.

You asked a simple question: “how can an unhireable person get a job?”

Answer: You can’t get a job because you have given yourself the label unhireable. Period.

Everything in your post builds and reinforces the story you’ve been telling yourself for a long time. You are putting most of your energy into explaining why things aren’t working out for you.

Until you drop that story, no amount of advice will help you.

If there is a part of you that can recognize the truth in this, you have a chance to rewrite your story.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#493

Post by wwn_se »

snakedoctor wrote: post #110
void_mint wrote: post #18

Have you tried asking any of the jobs that rejected you're getting rejected? Honestly, just a guess, you're probably giving off bad interpersonal vibes/people don't really like talking to you. Half of interviewing is just being very personable/being able to talk comfortably with other people. Generally in this space (this space meaning those interested in tech/startups/etc) sometimes people struggle in this area but…

I've tried asking companies for feedback. Some respond, and some don't. I think that most don't due to legal reasons. I did move to Austin when I received a lump sum of money, and hanged with some people IRL. Some would ratify that I'm awkward lol. But there was a lot of good vibes while I was in Austin. Now that I'm back where I grew up I find that I'm more depressed, and surly. State goverment here is more Laissez-…

If you know how to program you should go after that. There is a world wide shortage of programmers. It is also a great stepping stone if you want to move to something else.

If you can't get hired at a place there is a gig economy of sorts with lots of sites where you can bid yourself on projects. Start with small easy stuff and use those projects to build a portfolio.

I about a year that portfolio should be enough to get you in the door (for entry level developer roles) of most companies even if you have never worked as a programmer yet.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#494

Post by HWR_14 »

snakedoctor wrote: post #121
honkycat wrote: post #88

Your writing is not strong, i can tell you did not attend college. Written communication is important in tech. Your applying to those companies with 0 experience or college degree is unrealistic. The entry level is extremely competitive and you have nothing to make you interesting to hire. They get thousands of applications for those jobs. You are still young, plenty of time to learn, but I recommend taking a step ba…

Not to be argumentative. But yes, I did attend college. Send me a email, and I'll send you an email from my college email address (Hasn't been deactivited yet). I can send you my college transcript if that helps.. Well, I did get hired by IBM as a programmer so... I've contributed to a GNU open source project.. So I feel that I am qualifed for a entry level developer/SecEng/Security Analyst role. I went above my boss…

> Not to be argumentative. But yes, I did attend college.

Your claim may be technically correct. I am willing to believe you did attend a college for some period of time. However, it is nonresponsive. GP was claiming that your writing does not reflect the skills in writing that you are expected to develop as a college attendee. This is understandable; dropping out during/after freshmen year does not give your writing time to progress.

I care about your education because of what you learned, not because your acceptance is an excellent proxy for your SAT scores. (This is the same reason that your short stint as an IBM developer means less than you seem to believe it does.)

It's not the argumentative nature of your post that would be a red flag to me, it is the complete misunderstanding of the issue being raised.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#495

Post by atoav »

snapetom wrote: post #393
dotBen wrote: post #83

First off, your HN submission history is really weird, dude. ( https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=snakedoctor ) If you get a job in customer support at Amazon there is literally no way to get a 'promotion' to a dev role. It's different parts of the org, and you're tarnished with being a CS person. Why? Because it's signaling - people who can do eng roles at Amazon don't take CS roles so they don't bother minin…

> wonder if you have delusions of grandeur around your abilities which is creating a miss-match of expectation leading you to quit jobs you need to tough it out in. Not a doctor either, but I would agree with this. OP seems to have a disconnect between what reality and the old days of the first bubble where if you could spell programmer, you got a job as one. It doesn't work like that anymore, OP. Too much competitio…

Yes, but as a programmer I'd rather have a mediocre programmer who is a good communicator and who knows how to integrate with the team, than someone who has uncontrolled narcissistic tendecies and oversteps boundaries constantly even if they technically know more.

This has btw. not much to do with being on the spectrum. I also worked with people with disorders which integrated quite well into the team, because they understood the processes and the scope of their position. They all were able to differenciate criticism of their work from criticism of their very being as a person.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#496

Post by antiviral »

There are already some excellent responses here.

I get the sense that you are still trying to figure out what role is ideally suited for you, is that correct?

If that's true, here's an out-of-the-box idea.. Why not get a job as a recruiter?

Assuming it pays insurance, it might give you a chance to stabilize your expenses, learn about what tech companies look for, and how they operate. You'll also build a network by helping others get jobs.

In your spare time you can work on a few open-source projects that demonstrate your competence as a developer, if that's what you want.

Good luck!

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#499

Post by compliance_tech »

I'm in my early 40s. One of the best things I've done for myself over the last 20+ years is to lower my expectations for how responsive the world is and will be to my wants/desires/needs. It's a super fine tight-rope-walking line between having low expectations in some general sense vs assuming I need to be the agent in charge of my particular pursuit of happiness but this has been an exceptional way for me to approach the world. Best of luck. There's an arse for every seat. You will find something.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#500

Post by wwn_se »

atoav wrote: post #482
dcolkitt wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your writing is not strong, I don't know. I think he has pretty decent writing. Kinda reminds me of William Gibson. It may be stylistically unusual, but it's definitely better than the median SWE. At least in terms of clearly conveying his thoughts.

What is lacking however (and what seems to impact the opinion of many here negatively) is the total lack of self reflectivity. E.g. the previous jobs at the 3 big companies. Why did OP stop working there? Who ended the contract and why? If OP quit themselves, we lack any reason to understand why and whether this was a good idea in hindsight. Similar situation with the spoofing thing: this is an incredibly daring thin…

Totally agree, combined with the fact that op seems to focus on big tech giants that are generally hard to get in to is a big red flag.

My advise is to find a smaller company in a "boring field" (think local schools, manufacturing and retail not google/apple) and try to get the most entry level job that's still gives hands on programming / sysadmin experience. Many small help desks let juniors have small side projects improving something specific for example.

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