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Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

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Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#241

Post by zofinski »

Yo i sympathise OP! I think most people in this thread are being dicks. The job market is ruthless at the moment. Interviewing when you don't have a perfectly linear story is the worst. I typically have to go: "yup, i'm a college dropout, i had a 2 year span were i was pretty depressed and did next to nothing, then i worked at a gas station for a while in my early twenties etc etc" It's difficult to convince anybody that you are an amazing hire after having admitted to a history of professional failure. I think it was just dumbluck I found my current job. My approach was to be fully honest and transparent, admit to being a bit of a fuckup, but i tried to frame it like it's actually a good thing, because im driven by those failures. I found when I tried to hide the interview typically went worse.

I think it sounds like you are an ace engineer, working for IBM at 18 and supplying patches to GNU projects. Thats amazing. You're probably a better engineer than most people in this thread calling you socially inept or gatekeeping the SWE roles. The job market is ruthless, so your frustration is completely justified. Here hoping you'll manage to turn your situation around!

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#242

Post by taabcd »

snakedoctor wrote: post #195
taabcd wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For amazon, the move it not to apply formally through the internal jobs site. Clicking apply will notify your manager instantly. So the accepted practice is to connect directly with the HM for a chat/pre-interview and once they say they are inclined (barring unexpected info), click apply. This is fairly common and expected.

Yeah it pings your manager whenever you apply internally. That is an interesting work around. You can see HM/Sourcer/Recruiter for any roles internally. Then just get their contact information via Phone tool.

steps: 1) chime or slack them asking to setup a 30 minute sync about the role. 2) see what they want and if "apply"ing makes sense. If not, figure out your gaps.

Do this 5ish times. See where the gaps are. Work to fill them.

oh and get on blind so you can learn from other people's mistakes :)

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#243

Post by mastry0da »

rcurry wrote: post #171

Not sure if this helps, but we have a saying in Jiu Jitsu that a black belt is a white belt who never quit. Hang in there, and don’t be afraid to punch outside your weight class in tech - there are a million people out there who have problems, you just need to convince one of them that you’re the guy who can solve their problems.

osssss

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#244

Post by pcthrowaway »

snakedoctor wrote: post #210
pcthrowaway wrote: post #134

If you're not currently working, I'd recommend a staffing agency, Uber Eats, Taskrabbit, Instacart, etc. There are ways to start making money right now that might keep you from being homeless. And being homeless is going to set you back. Don't put any of the above on your resume. What are you looking for? You haven't really elaborated on what your skills are except for alluding to a possible penchant for security res…

I saw some people in Austin who did gig work like uber etc. I've thought about it. I'm a very anxious driver though. I've though about working in a Amazon warehouse. There's one near me. But they don't get health benefits for 3+ months. Have to do intense manual labor etc. EA QA was the most toxic place I ever worked at. Belittling people, thinking that all testers are incompetent etc. I have back pain, and dental is…

I don't know if this is possible in Austin, but Uber eats allows bicycle delivery (almost definitely available in Austin), and "on foot" delivery as well. Other delivery companies may have similar programs.

Instacart (in some locations) allows you to sign up just to do the shopping (then the drivers pick it up).

Taskrabbit will definitely have some things you can do without driving as well.

Just explore the options; something where you can set your own schedule would be really nice while you're job hunting and interviewing.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#245

Post by yummypaint »

I've never worked outside academia, so obviously take my advice with a huge grain of salt. To me it seems the common theme is that you are consistently applying to massive beurocratic organizations with rigid pre-established rules, and are then disappointed that you fit poorly into that structure. Have you tried looking at smaller places? This way even if you are entry level, your immediate boss will hold more meaningful decision making power. Your willingness to branch out independently and identify/fix problems will be more of an asset if there isn't already a person or department dedicated to every aspect of operations. Im wondering about maybe machinist type jobs at a local place, as they tend to be less picky about college education, but your technical and software skills could help you move quickly depending on what you're doing. Maybe you end up also fixing their business software backend etc

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#246

Post by jonstewart »

snakedoctor wrote: post #77
BeetleB wrote: post #54

So far none of the replies has mentioned this, and it may be unpopular in HN, but: Seriously consider going back to school and finishing a degree. Although it's "known" that you don't really need a degree for a SW role, there are plenty of well established old school companies that will not consider you at all unless you have a degree. On the flip side, you'll get jobs more easily. A lot of interviewers who choose to…

I've thought about it. Community College, Deep Springs etc. I think autodidacticism is a better way to learn vs academic path. Though I didn't want to finish high school but I did.. So, it might be just one of those things that I'll have to suck up and just do. I disliked that I would have to take 2 years of core curriculum stuff before even being allowed to take major related courses. I had to reach out to instructo…

Deep Springs has something like 18 students, right?

You’re young and you can change your trajectory—have hope!—but it will not be through some home run fantasy. Don’t apply to FAANG or Deep Springs or MIT. Apply to your local community college and to local companies’ IT departments. Keep the job, stay enrolled, get good grades, learn to stay quiet, learn to listen, and only then learn to argue well. After two-three years at community college (depending how fast you go, based on need to work), take your good grades and apply to a few colleges. Go to one that you can afford and isn’t intimidating. Do the work there, too, and graduate. Five years. And then all will be well.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#247

Post by dragonwriter »

How much actual paid work experience do you have? The pattern of quits of jobs/school isn’t attractive to most hiring entities, but if you’ve got enough experience and/or education, and you can mostly use enough of the former to substitute for the latter) to meet classification entry requirements, local or state civil service coding positions can be more tolerant of nontraditional work history than elite private and the most sensitive federal agencies, which seems to be where you've focussed.

By industry standards, pay sucks but benefits like health/dental are quite good in many cases (depends on particular state or locality.)

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#248

Post by rsweeney21 »

aetherspawn wrote: post #229
rsweeney21 wrote: post #84

I'm a software engineer that runs a technical recruiting company. I worked at Microsoft and Netflix for a decade. Email me at robert at facet dot net. I will interview you and tell you why you're not getting hired.

If I ever met you, I'd buy you a coffee. You jumped straight in to help the OP without offering any kind of upfront diagnosis based on the very little information available. The traits are patience and humility. They're valuable and not often found.

Helping other people is actually a tool I use to manage my anxiety. :)

Helps me put my worries in perspective. It works really well!

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#249

Post by BeetleB »

seiferteric wrote: post #66
BeetleB wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I contribute a lot and then quit after I feel like I'm not getting appropriate compensation. Compensation is a negotiation game, so go and learn to negotiate well. One key aspect is to understand the perspective of the other side. In this particular case, you would learn that giving pay raises "out of cycle" is a pain for all involved, and a manager doesn't want to discuss salary every time a report of his does som…

Another thing is you may think you contribute a lot, but if you put in your 2 weeks and your boss does not try to keep you (counter offer or whatever) then they obviously don't think the same thing about you...

If you spend less than 2 months on the job before you put in your 2 weeks, no boss will try to keep you.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#250

Post by chillfox »

hencq wrote: post #50
snakedoctor wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think hiring managers think that I'm a quitter. I definitely think that I was whining too much about the Amazon role. Beggers can't be choosers. However, the no health insurance thing rubbed me the wrong way. I felt like it was a dead end job. I wish that I would've stayed with it though. I probably would've been promoted by now. I need to stay with a job and rack up some years of experience for sure. Like I…

> I felt like that I should've got promoted after reporting those issues, especially since I found them within my frist two weeks. Take this with a grain of salt, since obviously I don't actually know you or the details of this situation. However, flagging issues to your boss' boss is rarely the best way to leave a good impression. It mostly signals you have problems working within the structure of the company and yo…

Yeah, that "expecting to get rewarded for calling out issues" is one of the things you can learn from homeschooling that needs to be unlearned later.

It comes down to you not having much power to fix anything as a child and parents who praise you for pointing out significant issues.

Anyways, it's not how society or workplaces work.

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