Not sure if this helps, but we have a saying in Jiu Jitsu that a black belt is a white belt who never quit. Hang in there, and don’t be afraid to punch outside your weight class in tech - there are a million people out there who have problems, you just need to convince one of them that you’re the guy who can solve their problems.
Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
171–180 of 875 posts
Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
you call him a creep, I would call him a go getter. it is immensely frustrating to deal with automated systems, resume keyword matchers, no contact within a company and being ghosted after taking the time to write a proposal and cover letter that is a fit for the job description. so what, he called an executive and got around their spam filter? my advice treat job hunting like a sales process. you're successful based…
> you call him a creep, I would call him a go getter. I've not had terribly good luck with people who use the term 'go getter.' Quite a few of them have been creeps. Smooth and slick, definitely, but at the end of the day, manipulative people who I avoid making eye contact with at public events, hoping that they don't remember me. Creeps.
I wonder if you use the word creep really broadly; e.g. to include people that make you uncomfortable.
Many/most of those people, it seems to me, mean well but have difficulty connecting with you in the way you are used to. Many of those people have a bunch of insecurities, burdens, or even mental health concerns. I don't think it is useful to call those people creeps.
Some people are certainly toxic in the context of certain relationships or cultures, I get that.
If someone is using you without reciprocating, there are words for that, but I don't tend to use 'creep'.
Anyhow, I hope we can offer constructive (actionable) feedback to the OP.
Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
> For instance, if they ask you why you left Amazon, you'd better not be saying "I found an important problem and I didn't get recognition for it." Tell them you had a personal emergency or something. Can I push on that a little? Lying is a Bad Move. There are, however, ways to finesse the conversation if it comes to that. But there's literally no reason you can't just come out and say, "I wasn't getting benefits, an…
I dunno, OP seems to have realized (according to other comments) that it was a bad move, and "I randomly decided to give up a job that in retrospect I could have put up with" does sort of seem like a personal emergency. :) To be clear I'm definitely not saying that you should make up a story "I had to take care of my grandma" or whatever. I don't advocate lying (and as a personal quirk I'm very unlikely to tell an ou…
> But it's going to be very difficult to explain why you left all of those jobs in a way that doesn't scare an employer.
If you work at a place for two months, don't put it on the resume?
If you have a gap in your employment, you need to be able to talk about that, but you don't have to talk about each stop.
In an interview, I'll ask about gaps. One ran something like, "I was laid off in {year} and took {weeks} to recover. It took me {months} to find a job at {company}. I took the role because of my financial situation, but I'm interested in you because I think our situations overlap better." That's not quite verbatim, but similar to what I had with someone we hired (I was part of the interview team, but I've never been a hiring manager). It didn't raise any red flags to me. His experience at his prior employer wasn't good, but he communicated effectively that he felt like we'd be a better fit, and we were.
Anecdotally, we had a candidate come in who was junior but pretty well educated. A thin resume in his situation would have been fine: we understood where he was coming from. I perceived a little insecurity from the two-page resume that could've been reduced to a few line items with a stronger emphasis on skills he brought to the table, and with a little probing on technical matters found that his purported experience was not what I would've expected from his background. Less in this case would've been more.
I don't know the OP from Adam, so I'd hesitate to offer much advice here; from the comments I'd think that there's a good reason to talk to a good counselor about the personal background and challenges and address the professional retooling after: but that's hard when you're down on your luck without money. Churches often offer this sort of service, but reading between the lines I'd guess that may not be an avenue for the OP.
Professionally I'd concentrate on starting over or looking to see if there are trade schools that would accommodate. One local to me is completely free and would provide a skillset for at least earning a living while trying to pursue other interests.
Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
#174Your writing is not strong, i can tell you did not attend college. Written communication is important in tech. Your applying to those companies with 0 experience or college degree is unrealistic. The entry level is extremely competitive and you have nothing to make you interesting to hire. They get thousands of applications for those jobs. You are still young, plenty of time to learn, but I recommend taking a step ba…
>Your writing is not strong Followed by >Your applying to those companies instead of "you are" or "you're" Cut him some slack.
If you read the rest of the sentence GP was correct
Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree but I would cut the OP some slack on the writing for a forum post. I know I have dashed off things here that could use some proof reading. But the gist of what you are saying makes sense to me. Going back to college seems like a good idea as a general direction.
The GP has put a "your" instead of "you're" in (almost) the very next sentence, so you don't even need to point to your own mistakes to illustrate your point...
I think GP might be a bit hard on writing style. I know plenty of succesful software engineers with poor writing abilities, and realistically my own are far from great. However your vs you're is the type of grammar mistake that really does not matter. Nobody is going to be confused by it. Writing structure is much more important.
Edit: also looking back, GP used your correctly, so wut?
Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
#176"You're unable to find employment, which means either you're carrying yourself incorrectly or you're unable to perform the tasks required of an entry-level applicant." -VoidMint in this thread
This needs to be reiterated. It doesn't matter if you're smarter than Donald Knuth if you come across poorly or can't answer interview questions. Based on your background I suspect you answer the interview questions but you have no idea how to work with people.
Working with people that are nice is hard, working with people that are 'difficult' is damn near impossible and you sound difficult. When someone presents an idea to you that's actually stupid what do you say? How do you tell people no? Do you think about the feelings of those around you before you say something? These are things that can be taken for granted but are important for working within an organization (which you have limited experience with).
I'm awkward as all hell but was able to make it in industry by consciously improving the way I interact with other people (especially when I don't agree with them). This isn't an insurmountable challenge but you have to identify what's causing you problems before you can fix it.
Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
#177First off, your HN submission history is really weird, dude. ( https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=snakedoctor ) If you get a job in customer support at Amazon there is literally no way to get a 'promotion' to a dev role. It's different parts of the org, and you're tarnished with being a CS person. Why? Because it's signaling - people who can do eng roles at Amazon don't take CS roles so they don't bother minin…
Homeschooled doesn't imply social skill deficit. Sure, some homeschooled kids have social skill issues, but some public school kids also have social skill issues. In the end, a healthy, non-insular, loving, connected family (either family of origin or a healthy/happy group into which one is welcomed and spends lots of time) is the only necessary requirement for healthy social skills, and it's often sufficient as well…
Homeschooling is frequently paired with some degree of insular.
Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
#178Your writing is not strong, i can tell you did not attend college. Written communication is important in tech. Your applying to those companies with 0 experience or college degree is unrealistic. The entry level is extremely competitive and you have nothing to make you interesting to hire. They get thousands of applications for those jobs. You are still young, plenty of time to learn, but I recommend taking a step ba…
Not to be argumentative. But yes, I did attend college. Send me a email, and I'll send you an email from my college email address (Hasn't been deactivited yet). I can send you my college transcript if that helps.. Well, I did get hired by IBM as a programmer so... I've contributed to a GNU open source project.. So I feel that I am qualifed for a entry level developer/SecEng/Security Analyst role. I went above my boss…
When responding to a comment that asserts your writing is not strong you'd want to read, re-read, and re-re-read your reply to ensure it is well written. You seem to have not done that, which lends credence to the parent's comment.
My take is you seem to have an inflated sense of your abilities. I've interviewed people who share this trait and it's a turn off unless they have a portfolio of work to back it up.
Perhaps try taking a more humble approach. Ask lots of questions as to what/where they need help. If they align with your experience then share concrete examples of how you've helped others in those same situations. If you haven't, make note of the challenges and see if you can identify patterns across interviews. This would provide hints as to what skill-building you could focus on in the interim.
Good luck!
Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
#179First off, your HN submission history is really weird, dude. ( https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=snakedoctor ) If you get a job in customer support at Amazon there is literally no way to get a 'promotion' to a dev role. It's different parts of the org, and you're tarnished with being a CS person. Why? Because it's signaling - people who can do eng roles at Amazon don't take CS roles so they don't bother minin…
> First off, your HN submission history is really weird, dude.
That's creepy and a poor start for giving someone social skills advice.
Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm seeing a therapist. I had an abusive childhood. Not that it justifies anything. I was also homeschooled since the 6th grade, so I didn't really have any IRL friends etc. I hope that I'm not a sociopath... I might be on the high functioning autisim scale. I've never been tested so I don't know.
No on minds someone that is weird and quiet. The weird and noisy is a problem. Try keeping to yourself (it's hard, I know) and let your work speak for you.
> No on minds someone that is weird and quiet
In my experience, this has definitely not been true. People will assume you're being standoffish even though you're just minding your own business, just aren't a very talkative person, are focused on solving a problem, etc.
If you're trying to "play the game," you'll probably be better off (in some sense) spending less time on work and more time being affable.