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Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

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Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#91

Post by dbrueck »

(1) Stop applying to the "popular" companies. (2) Stop quitting something every time it becomes hard. (3) Stop thinking you've paid your dues and deserve more already.

So take a deep breath, reset your expectations some, and humbly jump in at a less glamorous company and stay there for a couple of years. Long term you can still live the dream or whatever, but it sounds like you're trying to skip over some really important learning/experience stages (a good tech career involves far more than some tech expertise).

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#92

Post by pcthrowaway »

xpressvideoz wrote: post #51
snakedoctor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've quit a lot. I haven't lasted anywhere longer than 2 months. I contribute a lot and then quit after I feel like I'm not getting appropriate compensation. Though I certainly agree that I need to stick with a job. I think ageism, and other biases are in place though. More years of experience I get the less disdained I will be I think. I don't think I'm a know it all. I'm only in my early 20s. I definitely have a lo…

> I think ageism, and other biases are in place though. I don't understand. Aren't tech jobs generally in favor of young people? I've heard ageism against old people, but not the other way around. I guess you're mistakenly associating people's negative reactions with your age?

There's definitely age-ism at both ends of the spectrum. Companies really love to hire starry-eyed juniors who will work overtime without asking for extra pay. They depend on their willingness to do this, and to 'prove themselves' because, well, they need to. It's very common for new engineers to fall for the sunk-cost fallacy of 'well I haven't been here long enough to quit yet, but I'm learning a lot and things are bound to get better'.

There's also a wealth of employeres who will hire people for below-market pay, and those are exactly the type of people who need to prove themselves and can't really afford to leave the job. It's kind of a catch-22, and hard to empathize with people in this situation once you've earned your stripes and feel you're past it.

The problem with OP is that they haven't been able to get the kind of job where they really respect your abilities. But they haven't gone through the grind to show prospective employers they're worth that.

I get it, that grind is really demoralizing, stressful, and stacked in favour of the employers. If you're actually capable of doing work that commands higher pay, but you don't have the network, the social skills, or the qualifications (including work history and references), I get why you'd feel jaded. I was in the same boat 6 years ago and still haven't fully shaken the mentality its left me with.

Anyway, just wanted to remind those of you who have distanced yourselves enough from that period of your lives, or who maybe skipped it altogether with recognition in the form of a degree or open-source contributions, that ageism definitely swings the other way as well.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#93

Post by Ironlikebike »

snakedoctor wrote: post #9
elmerfud wrote: post #2

You leave out a lot about yourself that would make you unhireable. From what you've written it sounds like you could form a decent resume for an entry level position. The biggest red flag I see is that it doesn't sound like you completed anything and you don't have any follow through / sticktuitiveness. Life happens and reasons happen but you didn't complete college, you complain about your entry level position at am…

Yeah, I think hiring managers think that I'm a quitter. I definitely think that I was whining too much about the Amazon role. Beggers can't be choosers. However, the no health insurance thing rubbed me the wrong way. I felt like it was a dead end job. I wish that I would've stayed with it though. I probably would've been promoted by now. I need to stay with a job and rack up some years of experience for sure. Like I…

A promotion is not a reward. A promotion is an offer for a new job with higher expectations and more responsibility. If you struggle to meet the expectations of the current role, lack agreeableness, or are unlikely to be able to do the next role up there is no way that you'll get a promotion. Sometimes patience is key.

I'm currently mentoring a person who is transitioning into an engineering manager and this person has a noticeable stutter, but is an incredible candidate. If you don't like your southern drawl, change it. I'm from a place with a very strong accent but you'd never know it.

If you're getting a rejection to an application like "overqualified" or "not a good fit" it likely means your resume wasn't tailored to the position or there is something unbelievable about it.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#94

Post by TimTheTinker »

dotBen wrote: post #83

First off, your HN submission history is really weird, dude. ( https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=snakedoctor ) If you get a job in customer support at Amazon there is literally no way to get a 'promotion' to a dev role. It's different parts of the org, and you're tarnished with being a CS person. Why? Because it's signaling - people who can do eng roles at Amazon don't take CS roles so they don't bother minin…

Homeschooled doesn't imply social skill deficit. Sure, some homeschooled kids have social skill issues, but some public school kids also have social skill issues.

In the end, a healthy, non-insular, loving, connected family (either family of origin or a healthy/happy group into which one is welcomed and spends lots of time) is the only necessary requirement for healthy social skills, and it's often sufficient as well.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#95

Post by thatcat »

snakedoctor wrote: post #77
BeetleB wrote: post #54

So far none of the replies has mentioned this, and it may be unpopular in HN, but: Seriously consider going back to school and finishing a degree. Although it's "known" that you don't really need a degree for a SW role, there are plenty of well established old school companies that will not consider you at all unless you have a degree. On the flip side, you'll get jobs more easily. A lot of interviewers who choose to…

I've thought about it. Community College, Deep Springs etc. I think autodidacticism is a better way to learn vs academic path. Though I didn't want to finish high school but I did.. So, it might be just one of those things that I'll have to suck up and just do. I disliked that I would have to take 2 years of core curriculum stuff before even being allowed to take major related courses. I had to reach out to instructo…

When you're enrolled in college it opens up opportunities for internships, software eng is usually decent pay. Consider research, you don't have to interact with business people - academics are more understanding of autism spectrum behavior. I wouldn't expect career progression to be fast taking this route, but at least you'll get some experience.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#96

Post by bogwog »

Maybe read this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influen...

Everyone has said this a bunch already, but it's painfully obvious that your recruiters don't like you for some reason. Try reading that book, or some other self help book to try and game the interview (or maybe actually improve your social skills).

And also try to get honest advice from a friend or stranger. The problem might be something obvious and easy to fix that we can't possibly see over the internet. Like maybe you smell bad, or your haircut is weird, or your clothes are unprofessional. It'll probably be extremely awkward, but it will be worth it if it helps you get that job you want.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#97

Post by stonogo »

snakedoctor wrote: post #7
codegeek wrote: post #5

Need more details to give you a more accurate feedback. How long you have been working/in the industry in general ? It seems like you have done a few things over the years but don't really seem to have stuck to something that made you a specialist or someone worth hiring. Being brutal here but making assumptions. Do you quit a lot ? Do you have any criminal records that you are not aware of ? Are you too opinionated…

I've quit a lot. I haven't lasted anywhere longer than 2 months. I contribute a lot and then quit after I feel like I'm not getting appropriate compensation. Though I certainly agree that I need to stick with a job. I think ageism, and other biases are in place though. More years of experience I get the less disdained I will be I think. I don't think I'm a know it all. I'm only in my early 20s. I definitely have a lo…

You asked for brutal, so here is my take, with no sugar-coating.

I don't hire people to promote them in two months. If I thought they were going to be up for promotion that quickly I'd have hired them at the next level up to start with.

Similarly, how can you feel like you're not getting appropriate compensation when sixty days ago you agreed to that wage? Everyone contributes a lot, that's what they're paid to do. Most large orgs of the type you've listed have set promotion cycles and nothing you do short of buying the damn company is going to get you special consideration for that.

Also, ageism doesn't really work that way for lower-level jobs like you've described. People in tech are not afraid to hand responsibility to a young employee who has demonstrated responsibility. Related: you cannot possibly demonstrate responsibility in two months. Two months is essentially zero hours of tenure. I don't even consider an engineer fully onboarded before they've been here a year.

I think you need to focus on strategic thinking rather than ladder-climbing at your next job. Get a foot in the door and then start asking yourself how your contributions can align with the strategic goals of your org, then work along those directions. Keep your sense of entitlement tamped down, because most managers do not want to hear it, but pursue opportunities within the org as they come your way.

At this point you need to hold a job for at least five years just as damage control for your resume. By then I think you'll have a better sense of how to handle these places.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#99

Post by seppin »

snakedoctor wrote: post #89
kryogen1c wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm seeing a therapist. I had an abusive childhood. Not that it justifies anything. I was also homeschooled since the 6th grade, so I didn't really have any IRL friends etc. I hope that I'm not a sociopath... I might be on the high functioning autisim scale. I've never been tested so I don't know.

No on minds someone that is weird and quiet. The weird and noisy is a problem. Try keeping to yourself (it's hard, I know) and let your work speak for you.
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