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Effective altruism is not effective

philosophersbeard.org

31–40 of 248 posts

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#31

Effective altruism is a net positive, but it’s not a panacea. It suffers from the same problems as central planning and communism. Donors and nonprofits think they can calculate the most “effective” way to allocate funds — if only we can pack enough phds in this boardroom we’ll end poverty! Problem is, there’s no space in the room for the experts themselves — the ppl actually in poverty. Poverty is complex and no gro…

You might like GiveDirectly then, which is all about giving poor people money for them to spend as they see fit.

(There is more to it than that since distribution is nontrivial and they do scientific studies to see how well it works. After all, how do you prove it’s a good idea without studying it?)

It’s a recommendation of GiveWell and favorite of effective altruism types, at least as a benchmark.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#32

The author has a good point about traditional donation-based altruism not always being the most effective in achieving the end goal of ending poverty. For example, dumping hundreds of tons of second-hand clothes in African countries has a huge negative impact on local textile industries [1]. So while you're helping clothe people short-term, you're depressing wage opportunities long-term. I believe (could be wrong) th…

I agree, imo the biggest change would need to come from governments themselves. This is why I think I get more altruistic "bang-for-my-buck" by donating to Bernie Sanders, Andrew Yang, the Squad, and other progressive candidates b/c we really need to move beyond capitalism.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#33
post #18
post #4

This reads like a strawman perspective on the concept of 'effective altruism.' The 'effective' part in the term is doing a lot of the heavy lifting when it comes to the definition. It seems reasonable to focus on actually 'effective' actions with good outcomes, rather than comparatively ineffective virtual signalling or martyrdom. Becoming rich and then helping millions of people with your means is more impactful tha…

I'd assume you mean that being poor and helping dozens is more effective? The impact that you have when you are close to the person is far more likely to be a good one than if you're disconnected from them

A single poor person may be able to have a large impact on ~dozens of people, but even a small impact on millions of people is likely more valuable and 'altruistic' in terms of effect.

But again, both paths should be encouraged. There will always be relatively few 'rich' people with the means to help millions.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#34

My problem with EA, closely related to the points expressed by the author of this article, has always been this magical insistence on altruistic organizations that are both: 1. Extant outside the individual (e.g. "you", the reader, are not in an altruistic organization, but _somebody_ out there is, it's just not "you", so where is that somebody, and if it's not you, why do we always assume there will be a somebody) a…

Yes, asking the question “where should I donate money” limits scope, but it’s still an important question. It’s also easier to answer than job placement or new charity incubation, which depend a lot more on the individual.

There are plenty of important questions in life that nobody can answer unless they know you well.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#35
post #19

This article completely mischaracterizes the beliefs of most of the people quoted or referenced, then engages with those beliefs only via asserting the opposite without any supporting argument. I'm disappointed. For example: > The most charitable explanation of Singer’s dismissal of political action is that he is trying to sell being an altruist and he thinks a consumer -hero version is the one people are most likely…

> Ord and MacAskill co-founded an organization, 80,000 Hours[1], which advocates mostly not for effective giving (which the author derides as a "consumer hero" approach) but rather for spending your career working on one of the world's most pressing problems; notably including for instance several types of policy change. That’s not a universally true statement about 80,000 hours. I took their career choice questionna…

I got that same advice circa 2015. However I'm under the impression they started moving away from "earning-to-give" recommendations around 2015-2016.

It's still there mind you, but research and policy are prioritized higher. I'm not sure what else they would recommend to someone who is ill suited for these other careers.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#36
post #4

This reads like a strawman perspective on the concept of 'effective altruism.' The 'effective' part in the term is doing a lot of the heavy lifting when it comes to the definition. It seems reasonable to focus on actually 'effective' actions with good outcomes, rather than comparatively ineffective virtual signalling or martyrdom. Becoming rich and then helping millions of people with your means is more impactful tha…

But the "effective" part means more than just that. From their site:

> It is a research field which uses high-quality evidence and careful reasoning to work out how to help others as much as possible.

This assumes that reasoning and evidence are sufficient to determine what will be most effective. Compare this to the Buddhists, for example, who believe that the networks of causality are so complex and intricate that trying to make such determinations (at least, on any humanly reasonable scale) are doomed due to missing a lot of the picture as well as generally incorporating many faulty assumptions.

In other words, what is ultimately most effective at ending suffering may not fit into the metaphysical framework that EA implicitly adopts.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#37
I would ask the author of this post whether he cared if it turned out to be empirically true that an effective altruism strategy ended up doing more good in the world than some control group strategy. Whether his theory is sound or not, would evidence to the contrary change his opinion? Because, it seems like this should be possible to test, if that matters.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#38
post #6
post #2

This is all about the framing. What question is being answered? If the question is "which charity should I donate to" then we've already narrowed the scope to an individual's action with their own money. (Although there are some forms of collective behavior like crowdfunding.) The case for effective altruism seems pretty good within that space . If you broaden your scope to all the things people could do working toge…

You can individually choose to donate to political causes. Obviously anyone but the wealthiest can't single handedly influence large scale policy making, but lobbying and advocacy can have an outsized influence. Edit: Consider that lobbying has an ROI of something like 1000x. If you can be anywhere close to that effective at directing government spending towards foreign aid, poverty reduction, public health, etc. the…

This is true, but the problem is that you rarely know if political advocacy will work until after it succeeds, and even afterwards, it may take a while to study the impact of the change.

GiveWell did study some political advocacy groups, but apparently it’s just hard to know what to recommend with confidence. There is a spin-off organization (Open Philanthropy) that uses funds from rich philanthropists to do more experimental work.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#39
I get why this guy is engaging with Peter Singer, I think, because they're both academic philosophers, but I'm not sure that is really the major driver of EA, but perhaps I'm just blinded by the communities I'm adjacent to.

This doesn't seem to be a fair characterization of EA at large, though. I can't speak for Singer specifically, but this is missing a few things. 1) Forget the tithing aspect. A lot of that is just guilt alleviation for relatively well off people, but the reality is a whole lot of people already donate a whole lot of money, but most of it to Harvard and the Metropolitan Museum of New York, already fabulously wealthy institutions that don't need money and are mostly using it to entertain or educate people who are also rich. EA is largely about redirecting the existing flow of charity to better uses. 2) The Moneyball aspect. Unless you're a Koch brother, how much of an influence can you make politically? Massive, massive resources are already thrown into attempting to influence government. There is little point in trying to add to the heaping pile of cash and time and effort and mindshare already being thrown at hot button political issues. You can stretch the impact of a marginal dollar much further by focusing on the issues that nobody else is paying attention to. 3) Where to focus charitable giving says nothing about what else you direct energy and effort in general toward. Scott Alexander is probably getting linked here more often lately than any other outspoken EA advocate. The writer here may notice that Scott is somehow able to exert quite a bit of effort attempting to nudge policies and particularly his own field of healthcare is better directions while also managing to give a percentage of his income to malaria nets. One doesn't preclude the other. It just precludes giving that money to Harvard or the Metropolitan Museum of Art, or whatever local congress wannabe has been spamming my SMS the most lately.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#40

A solution to 90% of the article is maximizing average expected utility which avoids several flaws with traditional utilitarianism. GiveDirectly is a ground-up solution to the long-term problem of poverty. Now I get very political, but I think it's also empirically true: global capitalism is the major force for extreme poverty in this century. Cheap labor is highly desirable and economically efficient for everyone ex…

> global capitalism is the major force for extreme poverty in this century.

On what basis are you claiming this ?

All data clearly shows the extreme poverty has declined significantly in this century:

https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty

While the cause can be debated, it's quite clear that the global trade contributed significantly to reducing the poverty in the world.

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