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The value of downvoting, or, how Hacker News gets it wrong (2009)

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Re: The value of downvoting, or, how Hacker News gets it wrong (2009)

#181

Post by klyrs »

vict7 wrote: post #138
amznthrwaway wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The notion that HN is well-moderated is bizarre. HN is exceptionally hostile to those who hold beliefs contrary to HN-acceptable norms. If you want to get banned quickly, criticize pg portfolio companies (even politely, with valid criticism), point out that white supremacist and other hate speech is welcomed so long as it is polite; point out that responses to hate speech are _not_ tolerated..... The community here u…

As someone that just stopped lurking, it's clear downvoting is used primarily as a "disagree" button. Case in point, this comment I'm replying to. I believe they're making a meaningful contribution to this discussion. Yet the downvotes have already commenced.

The person you're replying to is shadowbanned, and their post actually got vouched for, but still (I think) starts off at a deficit.

Looking at your comment history, it looks like you enjoy wading into political conversations with strongly-held opinions. Food for thought, I'd have downvoted some of your comments that I agree with because they bring down the quality of the conversation.

Re: The value of downvoting, or, how Hacker News gets it wrong (2009)

#182

Post by type0 »

Buttons840 wrote: post #71
klyrs wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value of downvoting, or how Stackexchange gets it wrong about HN's voting system. It's hilarious that they start with some misconceptions about downvoting, notice that they're wrong, and forge boldly ahead without updating their understanding. If my hottest takes are any indication, the reputation floor -4 for a comment, not zero as they suggest. I haven't noticed a ceiling on upvotes. Upvotes help stories rise t…

As far as reputation goes, I see little difference between HN and Reddit. Why do you think HN does it right and Reddit wrong? SE prominently displays reputation points, which is different.

Not sure about reddit but here the reputation doesn't really mean anything, please downvote this comment as you please and I will prove my point :-)

Re: The value of downvoting, or, how Hacker News gets it wrong (2009)

#183

Post by amelius »

Speaking of shortcomings, how do people remove their account including all of their comments?

(Not saying that I want to remove my account of course, but perhaps one day I might)

EDIT: some discussion on this topic appeared here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16898422

Re: The value of downvoting, or, how Hacker News gets it wrong (2009)

#184

Post by robocat »

TheManInThePub wrote: post #135
CDRdude wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think slashdot’s voting system was well equipped to avoid that problem, but they faded anyway. Maybe it was the redesign? I think many of their innovations in 1999 would go a long way to resolve political downvoting today—-new accounts were unable to vote on comments, you were unable to vote and comment in the same posts, metamoderation to ensure fairness, and up or downvotes having to fit categories like ‘insightf…

Frankly, I couldn't agree with this more. I've seen intelligent and insightful HN posts down voted simply because they went against the status-quo. If this is allowed to go on, people will be afraid of making controversial (but intelligent) posts, and this place will become another reddit.

> down voted simply because they went against the status-quo.

Every tool will be abused sometimes.

I think the voting system mostly works extremely well - the system needs to be viewed as a whole with all the compromises that includes, rather than drill down on one particular failure.

Sometimes people use voting for bad reasons — I know I have (though I am quite conscientious to try and learn to vote more carefully).

Re: The value of downvoting, or, how Hacker News gets it wrong (2009)

#186

Post by wvenable »

tpmx wrote: post #153
wvenable wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individual comments are rarely flagged for anything other than outright spam or harassment. I browse with "show dead" turned on. I have seen entire heated topics killed but that kills both sides of the argument equally. What value is a 500-comment talk-over-each-other argument, fundamentally about politics even if on-topic, on this site? I doesn't seem like something we should waste time on.

The fallacy here: when you're only exposed to stuff that everyone agrees about, you're missing out.

Rarely does anyone ever comment to agree on something. And merely being contrarian is not valuable in of itself.

If a few things are over-moderated I might be mildly missing out. So what? Humans are fallible. There is no perfect system. You're not arguing that HN is so moderated that it's completely worthless. You're not even getting close to that.

So what do we do about a system that isn't perfect but is doing a pretty fine job?

Re: The value of downvoting, or, how Hacker News gets it wrong (2009)

#187

Post by kodah »

I've been downvoted to [dead] before, though I've never gotten mad about it.

One trend I have noticed is that on HN you won't necessarily be downvoted for your idea but you definitely will be downvoted for how you present it. If you come off as vitriolic or angry, you can expect a proportionate response. Frustration seems to be tolerated intermittently.

Re: The value of downvoting, or, how Hacker News gets it wrong (2009)

#188

Post by krapp »

amznthrwaway wrote: post #106
Tenoke wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Flagging is for problematic stories. If you follow at all which stories are rejected flagging is used as downvoting on a daily basis unless your definition of 'problematic' is extremely broad.

The notion that HN is well-moderated is bizarre. HN is exceptionally hostile to those who hold beliefs contrary to HN-acceptable norms. If you want to get banned quickly, criticize pg portfolio companies (even politely, with valid criticism), point out that white supremacist and other hate speech is welcomed so long as it is polite; point out that responses to hate speech are _not_ tolerated..... The community here u…

>point out that white supremacist and other hate speech is welcomed so long as it is polite; point out that responses to hate speech are _not_ tolerated.....

To be fair, much of the overtly racist and bigoted content I've seen lately has gotten voted down and flagged, and I've seen Dan step in and stand against it on a few occasions. I don't know if this is the result of a shift in my perceptions or in the community, but to me it seems like things were far worse a few years ago, and now at least a few of the notorious bad accounts have been banned. It's certainly not a paradise, God knows any time race, religion or gender comes up this place often winds up validating its execrable reputation, but I do think the mods are trying. It's not their fault the tech community is being taken over by incels and neo-reactionary fascists.

Re: The value of downvoting, or, how Hacker News gets it wrong (2009)

#189

Post by vict7 »

klyrs wrote: post #181
vict7 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone that just stopped lurking, it's clear downvoting is used primarily as a "disagree" button. Case in point, this comment I'm replying to. I believe they're making a meaningful contribution to this discussion. Yet the downvotes have already commenced.

The person you're replying to is shadowbanned, and their post actually got vouched for, but still (I think) starts off at a deficit. Looking at your comment history, it looks like you enjoy wading into political conversations with strongly-held opinions. Food for thought, I'd have downvoted some of your comments that I agree with because they bring down the quality of the conversation.

Hey I truly appreciate the honesty! I can't easily assess the exact reason why I got downvotes without comments like this. Thanks for filling me in!

Re: The value of downvoting, or, how Hacker News gets it wrong (2009)

#190

Post by 0xEFF »

downandout wrote: post #144
joering2 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would actually like to see a list of largest karma-wise HN members who left. By leaving I would say over 180 days inactive. Dang can you post the result please: SELECT hn_name, hn_karma, hn_last_active FROM comments WHERE TIMESTAMPDIFF(DAY, hn_last_active, NOW()) > 180 ORDER BY hn_karma DESC LIMIT 100

I used to be incredibly active on here, and then I started getting downvoted on virtually every comment, likely for political reasons. I have all but stopped commenting compared to my previous activity. It just stopped being fun. Even posts I make that have nothing to do with politics, that only point out provable, factual information, get downvoted. I have over 13K karma, even after losing a few thousand points over…

Down voted you because of your about me.
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