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Bernie Madoff has died

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Re: Bernie Madoff has died

#111

Post by Clewza313 »

soneca wrote: post #33

Madoff made his ponzi scheme last 17 years with a limited network. Imagine how long a ponzi scheme accessible by the whole world could last. Possibly forever (or at least longer than my lifetime). I am thinking about Bitcoin here.

Tether, which is apparently backed by Bitcoin itself, fits the bill. They've printed $20 billion (BILLION!) new USDT since the start of the year, and the rate of Tether printing is currently over 4x faster than the rate at which new Bitcoin is being mined. And like Madoff's scheme, it can keep going until the tide goes out and we find out who's been swimming naked.

Re: Bernie Madoff has died

#112

Post by yostrovs »

cletus wrote: post #81
nemacol wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that a system of public service / community service requirements instead of fines would be better for common offenses? Without any real research I have often thought that instead of fines for parking violations, noise complaints, (other misdemeanors) etc - having someone spend time instead of money would make those sorts of punishments more equitable. There are issues - child care if a parent has to spen…

The criminal justice system already does this extensively. Often people are sentenced to community service. So I guess your question is really should this be extended to more low-level offenses like minor traffic violations? It's an interesting question. In Switzerland, for example, speeding above a certain level ceases to be a fixed fine and is instead a percentage of your income. I'm a fan of that. Fixed fines tend…

You're referring to reported income, that in Switzerland is a national tradition to hide.

Re: Bernie Madoff has died

#113

Post by throwaway0a5e »

nemacol wrote: post #99
cletus wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The criminal justice system already does this extensively. Often people are sentenced to community service. So I guess your question is really should this be extended to more low-level offenses like minor traffic violations? It's an interesting question. In Switzerland, for example, speeding above a certain level ceases to be a fixed fine and is instead a percentage of your income. I'm a fan of that. Fixed fines tend…

I like the % of income idea.

I like it simply because screwing the rich and middle as hard as the poors on trivial issues is gonna make it real clear real quick how excessive penalties for common civil offenses are and pretty soon thereafter the laws will change.

HN has this fantasy of $10k speeding tickets. In reality it's gonna look like 100mph speed limits, $100 fines for you and $10 fines for your nanny.

Re: Bernie Madoff has died

#114

Post by kolinko »

saalweachter wrote: post #97
tim333 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin isn't really a ponzi scheme though, just an asset that gets bid up. In a ponzi you pay in x and are promised x+50% or some such and the scheme fails when there isn't money to pay out x+50%. With bitcoin you buy for price x and sell for price y which may be higher or lower. Different thing. It can't fail, just go up or down in price.

Eh, I'm comfortable calling Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme because all profits extracted by early investors come from later investors. That's, like, a very specific and applicable definition.

So you just redefined a the name „Ponzi” to mean something else than the commonly accepted definition.

Re: Bernie Madoff has died

#115

Post by whatshisface »

mc32 wrote: post #107
nemacol wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the % of income idea.

What do you do with crimes committed by people who have little in earnings (students, unemployed, etc.) or folks who earn “$1” in income but obviously are otherwise wealthy?

It would be based on the income of all of the money attached to you, including interest/dividends/appreciation within trusts with you as the grantee. Since wealth makes more money in virtually every way it can be stored, and since not investing it results in the "inflation tax," inflation + income tax = wealth tax.

Re: Bernie Madoff has died

#116

Post by purple_ferret »

soneca wrote: post #33

Madoff made his ponzi scheme last 17 years with a limited network. Imagine how long a ponzi scheme accessible by the whole world could last. Possibly forever (or at least longer than my lifetime). I am thinking about Bitcoin here.

The current iteration of crypto yield farming seems more like a classic ponzi scheme to me.

"Here I invented this new coin. If you buy it and lock it up, you can generate new ones which you'll be able to sell to others who'll want to get in on it to. This coin serves no other purpose than this though."

Re: Bernie Madoff has died

#118

Post by splistud »

darknavi wrote: post #42
soneca wrote: post #33

Madoff made his ponzi scheme last 17 years with a limited network. Imagine how long a ponzi scheme accessible by the whole world could last. Possibly forever (or at least longer than my lifetime). I am thinking about Bitcoin here.

The stock market in general. The last few years have really swoon us that the stock market is 100% "funny money" that goes up and down purely based on opinion.

Buying equities in our society is done on a voluntary basis. What other possible pricing mechanism could there be other than people's opinion of what an equity is worth? If you want to throw your hands up in the air and call it funny money, because you don't understand what you're seeing, that's fine I guess. But understand the deficiency is yours, not the nature of the market.

Re: Bernie Madoff has died

#120

Post by robotcookies »

krupan wrote: post #54

I was wondering how he got into this, did he set out to run a ponzi scheme from the get go? Interesting to see that it was not like that. He was running an honest fund that ran into some trouble during a down turn. He convinced himself that he could just fudge things a little, just until the downturn passed and then he'd go straight again. Of course he never went straight again. Life lessons for everyone there.

Madeoff's claim has always been that it was meant to be a temporary, short term thing and he believed he could get himself out of it before anyone else realized his fraud.
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