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The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

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Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#181

Post by creata »

TameAntelope wrote: post #14
echelon wrote: post #3

The DOJ needs to strip Google's ability to run the world's most popular browser away from it. This is far more blatant than Microsoft antitrust with Internet Explorer. Google is literally shaping the entire internet into their ad funnel. Google cannot be allowed to run Chrome.

So if you create something interesting enough, the government shouldn't let you keep it? What kind of incentive is that to create interesting things?

You seem to insinuate that such rules would disincentivize the creation of interesting things, but I cannot imagine someone deciding not to create something simply because there is an unfathomably high ceiling on how successful it can be.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#182

Post by rsj_hn »

EMM_386 wrote: post #32

I don't see how the entire FLoC concept can succeed. There is zero incentive for Chromium forks, let alone any other browser vendor, to implement/leave-in this technology. For other browser vendors, it is zero-effort to not support it. For Chromium forks, implementing it is zero effort but also comes with the same negative gain it would have for other vendors (that end-users are blind to). Unless you consider "more r…

What is the market share of chromium forks? Chrome - not chromium - has 65%, Safari has 20%, then you drop to 3.5% for Edge -- basically people accidentally launching Edge when they try to search for stuff in what used to be the windows start menu -- along with Opera and Firefox. Combined, Edge, Firefox and Opera have about 10% market share, and then far below them are browsers like Brave, with 1% market share, and far below that are browsers like Vivaldi.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#183

Post by vaylian »

gfxgirl wrote: post #179

What is the stealman argument for FLoC? I don't agree with the argument that "no tracking" is better than semi-anonymous tracking because I believe "no tracking" is effectively impossible. Only in some fantasy world are you going to get browsers to become the lowest-common-denominator place with no JavaScript. Not even Firefox nor Apple (privacy first) are pushing for that world. I think possible one argument is if F…

> I believe "no tracking" is effectively impossible

The problem is cross-site tracking. You can't prevent a single site from tracking you on itself. But it should be possible to block third-party (tracker) content by default.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#184

Post by rsj_hn »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #175
luke2m wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is zero incentive for Chromium forks, let alone any other browser vendor, to implement/leave-in this technology. Chrome has a 60-70% market share on its own. Most people don’t even know the difference between “the internet” “the www” and “chrome” So, there is zero incentive for the 30% of non-chrome browsers, but most of the people who don’t use adblockers anyway will be sucked into this.

>Most people don’t even know the difference between “the internet” “the www” and “chrome” I mean it used to be that most people didn't know the difference between IE and the internet, and some time in the last ten years I guess it changed to Chrome instead of IE. Now of course there have been more people coming on to the web during that time as well, but I have to think that there is a significant number of people wh…

> I mean it used to be that most people didn't know the difference between IE and the internet, and some time in the last ten years I guess it changed to Chrome instead of IE.

Right and there was a reason for that. IE's monopoly didn't fall from the sky. Netscape was flying high and they decided to rewrite the whole browser while IE kept adding features. The end result was that yes, Firefox was born, but its market share collapsed.

Now you have a lot of browsers deciding that the most important thing they can do is remove features and break websites. Maybe those features aren't very good from a privacy point of view, but when the other guy's browser works and yours doesn't, that's not a recipe for gaining market share. Chrome is the other guy, and unlike Safari which is disabling cookies right and left and refusing to load resources, Chrome is willing to do it and sites work with Chrome. So in that dynamic, there is little reason to think that Chrome is going to lose market share to browsers whose main raison d'etre is that they will refuse to load/send resources. If it wasn't for iOS banning non-safari engines, Chrome's market share would be much higher, which is pretty sad given that it's become so bloated. But users care more about stuff working.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#185

Post by laurowyn »

bserge wrote: post #64
laurowyn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is not using the shipping address for any other reason than shipping an order really that much more effort? Sure, protecting that information is more effort, but you should be doing that already, right? not just from a GDPR perspective but a business perspective too - if a competitor can get a list of all your clients and send them brochures with 10% discount on your prices, you'll close down pretty quick.

Why do you have the list? Ideally, you purge their information after the order is delivered.

"protection" would include deleting once no longer required, does it not? Can't lose something you don't have in the first place.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#186

Post by bryanrasmussen »

rsj_hn wrote: post #184
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most people don’t even know the difference between “the internet” “the www” and “chrome” I mean it used to be that most people didn't know the difference between IE and the internet, and some time in the last ten years I guess it changed to Chrome instead of IE. Now of course there have been more people coming on to the web during that time as well, but I have to think that there is a significant number of people wh…

> I mean it used to be that most people didn't know the difference between IE and the internet, and some time in the last ten years I guess it changed to Chrome instead of IE. Right and there was a reason for that. IE's monopoly didn't fall from the sky. Netscape was flying high and they decided to rewrite the whole browser while IE kept adding features. The end result was that yes, Firefox was born, but its market s…

yeah, I'm just arguing that the statement that most users don't know there is a difference between Chrome and the internet seems unlikely to me.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#187

Post by laurowyn »

drstewart wrote: post #134
laurowyn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is not using the shipping address for any other reason than shipping an order really that much more effort? Sure, protecting that information is more effort, but you should be doing that already, right? not just from a GDPR perspective but a business perspective too - if a competitor can get a list of all your clients and send them brochures with 10% discount on your prices, you'll close down pretty quick.

> not just from a GDPR perspective but a business perspective too - if a competitor can get a list of all your clients and send them brochures with 10% discount on your prices, you'll close down pretty quick. Link to this ever happening pre-GDPR?

This is pretty well documented in business law. former employee transfers to competitor, takes clientele with them.

https://www.acumenbusinesslaw.co.uk/2018/07/23/a-former-empl...

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#188

Post by rivn »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #28

"Please switch to a browser that supports FLoC to view this page." [Links to Chrome, etc.] "This website requires a browser that supports FLoC. Please install one of the folllowing compatible browsers: " [Links for Chrome, etc.] "We've detected you are using a browser that does not support FLoC. Please update your browser to use this website." [Links to Chrome, etc.] "Your browser is outdated! Please upgrade." [Links…

that's an instant ctrl+w, unless there's no alternative. and there is alternative for most things.

I know that's a minority opinion, but I do hope it's a double-digit % minority - or at least it will be once things get bad enough.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#190

Post by npteljes »

dang wrote: post #33

Recent related threads: Brave disables Chromium FLoC features - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26765084 - April 2021 (335 comments) Am I FLoCed? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26755313 - April 2021 (33 comments) Google’s FLoC Is a Terrible Idea - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26344013 - March 2021 (348 comments) I know there have been others - if anyone finds them, I'll add to the above list.

There's also the EFF website, "Am I FLoCed?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26755313 - April 2021 (33 comments, 144 points)
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