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The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

vivaldi.com

171–180 of 216 posts

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#171

"Please switch to a browser that supports FLoC to view this page." [Links to Chrome, etc.] "This website requires a browser that supports FLoC. Please install one of the folllowing compatible browsers: " [Links for Chrome, etc.] "We've detected you are using a browser that does not support FLoC. Please update your browser to use this website." [Links to Chrome, etc.] "Your browser is outdated! Please upgrade." [Links…

Could you not just send a random floc on every request?

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#172
post #12
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is then?

A company that is independent from advertisers like Google and Facebook.

> independent from advertisers

It’d hard to call it independent as it’d be making 99% revenues from selling traffic to Google.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit off topic but I'd love to see a sort of ML/AI feature where "related discussions" can be added automatically for added context, I appreciate you do this manually and I find it very useful to get more of an idea of the relevance/importance of a topic! (Maybe even a "HN search found 3 possibly related threads")

Why would that need ML? PageRank has worked for ages for this problem.

I would consider PageRank as a quite successful example of machine learning. Am I wrong?

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#174
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why'd they go out and download another browser if they don't understand the concept of a browser? Only Android comes with the Google browser as default browser as far as I know. I think whatever the setupper of the computer dictates whatever Internet is, and secondarily the OS vendor if the new user doesn't have a tech friend. I don't think Chrome is somehow == Internet for these people specifically. (Personally I ca…

Old folks don't download Chrome, their sucker children do. Those who are too frail to lift the koolaid cup to their mouths shall be aided by their brethren. But also Chrome isn't super hard to install anyway and the dark patterns "help" with the process. Go on Google.com with MS Edge and it'll tell you Chrome will give you a faster, more betterer Internet. It must be pretty convincing to hear that from the de facto a…

To be fair, Edge is also "pushed onto" people, being a default install in Windows.

Not saying it's right how Chrome is pushed though. IMO, ideally there would be regulation requiring Windows to offer a fair choice of browser downloads (none preinstalled) when you set up the computer, and google wouldn't pull it's "faster, better browser" thing when visiting their search site.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#175
post #73
post #32

I don't see how the entire FLoC concept can succeed. There is zero incentive for Chromium forks, let alone any other browser vendor, to implement/leave-in this technology. For other browser vendors, it is zero-effort to not support it. For Chromium forks, implementing it is zero effort but also comes with the same negative gain it would have for other vendors (that end-users are blind to). Unless you consider "more r…

>There is zero incentive for Chromium forks, let alone any other browser vendor, to implement/leave-in this technology. Chrome has a 60-70% market share on its own. Most people don’t even know the difference between “the internet” “the www” and “chrome” So, there is zero incentive for the 30% of non-chrome browsers, but most of the people who don’t use adblockers anyway will be sucked into this.

>Most people don’t even know the difference between “the internet” “the www” and “chrome”

I mean it used to be that most people didn't know the difference between IE and the internet, and some time in the last ten years I guess it changed to Chrome instead of IE.

Now of course there have been more people coming on to the web during that time as well, but I have to think that there is a significant number of people who by this time must have some idea that the browser itself is not the internet.

And I don't use adblockers, but I don't use chrome either.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#176
post #55
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man GDPR is such a pain to implement and UX-wise, but it seems to actually have improved personal data protection.

It's not. For non-essential stuff you need permission from your user. So don't track and you don't need to show a cookie banner even if you use cookies.

It is not really about the cookie banner though. It is more about user info that is saved anywhere, so for things with accounts etc. it is really relevant.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What website was that? I haven't seen such a f*ckup in ages. (Firefox user here.)

I got that apartment hunting, and there was a 3d tour. The page worked fine on firefox (even with ublock running) but it still had that message.

There's an option to report an incompatible site in Firefox.

They have a list of sites which user agent sniff for Chrome but work perfectly fine in Firefox.

For those sites they add a rule to pretend to be chrome.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#178
post #95
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You definitely could. Though apparently in incognito mode it's recommended that browsers just throw an exception rather than provide fake data: https://github.com/WICG/floc/blob/dcd4c042fa6a81b048e04a78b1...

Throwing an exception in incognito mode allows websites to detect incognito mode, which is not desirable. Incognito mode should provide fake data.

Google have stated that they are not interested in preventing fingerprinting.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#179
What is the stealman argument for FLoC?

I don't agree with the argument that "no tracking" is better than semi-anonymous tracking because I believe "no tracking" is effectively impossible. Only in some fantasy world are you going to get browsers to become the lowest-common-denominator place with no JavaScript. Not even Firefox nor Apple (privacy first) are pushing for that world.

I think possible one argument is if FLoC is good enough it will slow the tracking arms race. I suppose that is also a fantasy though.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#180
post #78

Anyone using Vivaldi full-time? As a Firefox user, I find I have to install a number of third-party extensions to get some basic functionality that Vivaldi has out of the box (ad-blocking, note taking). Anyone made the switch, and, if so, can you share your experience?

I've been using Vivaldi since their first betas and it's been my primary browser ever since. It was only logic: I was a long term Opera user, and Vivaldi became the spiritual child of Opera after Opera became another Chrome.

The wikipedia page explains this well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivaldi_(web_browser)

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