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A top-grossing scam on the App Store

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Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#201

Post by zepto »

asdff wrote: post #140
mason55 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said it yourself: > an abuse of Microsoft's market position Apple has no such market position to abuse. It's perfectly legal to put restrictions on your product. It's perfectly legal to be a monopoly. It's only a problem when you abuse your monopoly position to restrict competitors.

They do. They have a total monopoly on phones running iOS. Way stronger of a monopoly than PCs running windows in the 90s, given that every single iPhone is locked into this vertically integrated market.

By that logic, every company has a monopoly on its own products.

Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#202

Post by [deleted] »

coldtea wrote: post #126
tolmasky wrote: post #54

Apple has just engineered the worst possible situation for themselves by being the only way to get apps on the store and by simultaneously incessantly marketing the store as "Safe and Secure". The former encourages them to maximize the number of apps on the store, while the latter encourages them to shoot first and ask questions later. If side-loading or alternative ways of getting apps onto the iPhone existed, then…

> If side-loading or alternative ways of getting apps onto the iPhone existed, then they could implement far stricter controls knowing that, worst case scenario, you can still get an app onto the iPhone. This is how it works on the Mac. Tor isn't on the Mac App Store, but that of course doesn't mean Tor can't be used on the Mac. And if side-loading was alowed then every big player whose app users "have to have", e.g.…

[deleted]

Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#203

Post by sneak »

tolmasky wrote: post #54

Apple has just engineered the worst possible situation for themselves by being the only way to get apps on the store and by simultaneously incessantly marketing the store as "Safe and Secure". The former encourages them to maximize the number of apps on the store, while the latter encourages them to shoot first and ask questions later. If side-loading or alternative ways of getting apps onto the iPhone existed, then…

For a counterexample, Wireguard is on the Mac App Store (MAS) and can't be downloaded directly from their site because you can't install NetworkExtension VPN apps on a mac outside of the MAS.

Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#204

Post by Apocryphon »

zepto wrote: post #197
Apocryphon wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Definitely not true. Most people will be forced to install alternative stores because those stores will pay for exclusives on key apps. Players like Facebook and Google will open stores and only make their products available within them. That is debatable, and discussed throughout this thread, including in my own comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26799453 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26799283 F…

> Most Android users use the Google Play Store. This as you must be aware, is because first class alternative stores are not possible on Android. > Facebook does not run their own separate Android app store, even though they could This as you must be aware, is because first class alternative stores are not possible on Android. > Apple is a master of dark patterns and social engineering, and can easily convey the safe…

> This as you must be aware, is because first class alternative stores are not possible on Android.

No one is mandating first class alternative stores on iOS, merely the ability to download apps from third party stores or to sideload .ipa files.

> This is made up and has no validity.

Your Apple bashing is baseless and has no place in a reasoned discussion such as this.

> More fantasy. After years of public statements to the contrary this is not realistic.

Your lack of sources and petty commentary debases this conversation and discredits your own position.

> They may hold the greatest fault, but facilitating scammers and then blaming them is kinda silly.

Allowing alternative app stores is no more facilitating scammers than the present situation of Apple failing to enforce its own app store's promises and failing to prosecute existing scammers.

> Apple is taking responsibility for reducing scams. Let’s not stop them.

A claim with zero evidence.

> A claim with zero evidence.

How many scam apps with annual revenue of $5m were on the App Store in 2010?

> There can be simply more scams being attempted and so more slipping through. Indeed this would be expected in a growing market.

A claim with zero evidence.

> The only one along with everyone else who understands computer science.

This is made up and has no validity.

> Nobody in history has ever produced a perfectly secure operating system.

It is clear from this discussion that you are not a fan of Apple. Please seek to reduce your own bias when attempting to have a serious conversation.

> No anti-trust regulator would allow Apple to block apps installed by other stores.

When was the last time any regulator acted against Apple in a substantiative way, in the United States?

> This is of course nonsense.

A claim with zero evidence.

> Stores won’t compete on security. They’ll compete for customers using all the usual mechanisms - buying exclusives, tying their stores to other services and products, heavy marketing, and discrediting their competitors.

Not only does that ignore the popular niche of security- or privacy-oriented technology (e.g. the Tor browser, the Blackphone, Telegram, Signal, the entire following article,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security-focused_operating_sys...

It also ignores that projects in the smartphone space such as F-Droid, or even Librem Purism or Pinephone, all revolve around business models that are not based on the sort of cutthroat commercialism you believe is ubiquitous. Certainly it is behavior that Apple does not indulge in.

> Even if a store did exist that was less scammy than Apple’s, it simply wouldn’t have everything a customer wanted anyway.

A claim with zero evidence.

Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#205

Post by Apocryphon »

zepto wrote: post #199
Apocryphon wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the whole "there is no alternative to the App Store" argument completely falls apart in the face of the existence of the Mac, and how the Mac isn't constrained by the Mac App Store.

Obviously not, because the Mac has only ever had minor sales relative to the PC even, and minuscule compared to iOS. It’s never been a serious target.

Your Apple bashing is really quite tiresome. Macs are serious machines and have grown in leaps and bounds over the past two decades. Are you seriously saying the de facto development platform for Silicon Valley startups, as well as the home for Apple Silicon, is no longer a “serious target”? No need to shill for Windows here.

Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#206

Post by busymom0 »

As an iOS and MacOS Developer myself, this doesn’t surprise me but it still infuriates me. Over the years, I have realized that the app review is extremely inconsistent and also the rules are applied differently to different developers. While I have no proof of whether Apple is allowing this simply because it’s a high grossing app, I do know that Apple treats the big company apps like Facebook, Uber, Twitter and Reddit differently.

The update logs are a perfect example. I have had updates rejected (rightfully) because my update logs were too vague and there’s a rule against vague useless update logs.

But the same standard never applies to FB, Twitter etc. FB’s update logs are always vague and two lines of “We update the app often to fix bugs and improve features.” Even when they are using updates to lets say remove features or add features.

People often try to excuse this by saying “big companies have too many A-B tests etc. But that makes it worse. A big company should be held to an even higher standard than the ordinary pleb developer like me.

Another example is when Apple gave special privileges to Uber’s app:

https://www.businessinsider.in/apple-gave-ubers-app-unpreced...

It’s a BIG CLUB and you and I ain’t in it.

Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#207

Post by busymom0 »

ksec wrote: post #36

Patrick McGee from Financial Times had a whole twitter thread [1] on it. It got everything from banning apps for competitive reason to Apple's FEAR ( Fraud Engineering Algorithms and Risk ) team saying the current App Store review process is inadequate. I am starting to think there is a much deeper problem with Apple, it is that without Steve Jobs, no one is being the yard stick of quality, especially in UX. A decade…

The UI/UX standards have definitely gone out the window. From strange and inconsistent margins in iOS to the strange icon designs in the Big Sur update.

Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#208

Post by busymom0 »

withinboredom wrote: post #168
sbarre wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fair position to have, but maybe a follow-up question: If you're able to share your thoughts without giving away private info from your time there: Based on this particular scam - with so many bad reviews AND the extremely high revenue being generated, should this not have tripped some kind of alarm for closer review? How has this been going on for so long without anyone at Apple noticing? It's not like it'…

I’d be willing to bet that no one is looking in the top X% of grossing apps for spam/scan. They probably (wrongly) assumed that most people wouldn’t spend money on a scam and most people wouldn’t be fooled, only a small set of people. In fact, I doubt their AI’s training data lacked anything like this.

But isn’t that the primary reason Apple claims to want to maintain the walled garden and build “idiot proof” products - because they realize many people easily get fooled and spend money on scams?

Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#209

Post by zepto »

Apocryphon wrote: post #204
zepto wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most Android users use the Google Play Store. This as you must be aware, is because first class alternative stores are not possible on Android. > Facebook does not run their own separate Android app store, even though they could This as you must be aware, is because first class alternative stores are not possible on Android. > Apple is a master of dark patterns and social engineering, and can easily convey the safe…

> This as you must be aware, is because first class alternative stores are not possible on Android. No one is mandating first class alternative stores on iOS, merely the ability to download apps from third party stores or to sideload .ipa files. > This is made up and has no validity. Your Apple bashing is baseless and has no place in a reasoned discussion such as this. > More fantasy. After years of public statements…

> No one is mandating first class alternative stores on iOS

That’s exactly what Epic, for example is asking for.

>> Nobody in history has ever produced a perfectly secure operating system.

> It is clear from this discussion that you are not a fan of Apple. Please seek to reduce your own bias when attempting to have a serious conversation.

If I was wrong, you’d have been able to respond with an example.

> When was the last time any regulator acted against Apple in a substantiative way, in the United States?

Last time was the EBook settlement.

I guess you aren’t aware of Epic’s case.

> Not only does that ignore the popular niche of security- or privacy-oriented technology (e.g.

Erm, you do realize that these technologies have nothing to do with preventing scam apps in stores, right?

>> Even if a store did exist that was less scammy than Apple’s, it simply wouldn’t have everything a customer wanted anyway.

> A claim with zero evidence.

No evidence because we are talking about something in the future, but irrelevant because this is just a logical truth that flows from your premise.

The counterclaim, that a single scam free store would have all of the apps in it is obviously false because the premise is a future with multiple stores.

Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#210

Post by jhanschoo »

pranau wrote: post #129
coldtea wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If side-loading or alternative ways of getting apps onto the iPhone existed, then they could implement far stricter controls knowing that, worst case scenario, you can still get an app onto the iPhone. This is how it works on the Mac. Tor isn't on the Mac App Store, but that of course doesn't mean Tor can't be used on the Mac. And if side-loading was alowed then every big player whose app users "have to have", e.g.…

>And if side-loading was alowed then every big player whose app users "have to have", e.g. Google, Facebook, Abobe, Zoom, Epic, would start their own independent app store (or distribution just for their apps). >Users would have no recourse than to install the app for there (or do without Facebook or Zoom etc). We are already aware of a platform that allows easy sideloading - Android. And most apps on Android are dis…

> All "big" players still go through the Play Store.

There are many big players that don't go through the Play Store, and for a variety of reasons. Fortnite and ISP-promoted apps and device-manucacturer apps (for business and leverage reasons), DMM (because a primary line of their business is in adult content), and basically everything in mainland China (because Google doesn't operate there).

These players all operate their own app stores.

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