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Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

theintercept.com

71–80 of 287 posts

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#71

Like them or not the Israeli Defense Force is arguably the most effective military in the world. From the Iron Dome, the Uzi, and the Arrow missile, the IDF has a track record of successful military projects. They seem lean and effective, unlike the US military. The US Military recently has had a track record of project failures from the F-35 to the Comanche helicopter and now they are spending $20B for Microsoft Hol…

The Uzi seems like an odd thing to brag about.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#72
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is not governed by religious law, and has full rights for women, minorities, and LGBTQ. Its basis for most policy is a blend of social democracy and neoliberalism. Its military is purely defensive. I cannot say any of those things about Iran in good faith. Also, the what-about-ism is not a great defense of anything geopolitical btw.

What do you think would happen if the US and all of Europe completely pulled out of the Middle East? Would Israel stay the size it is now? If not, can you really say it's "purely defensive"?

I am not sure what you are implying. Can you elaborate? Are you saying Israel would go attack its neighbors and seize land? From Egypt? Jordan? Lebanon? If so, that's an absurd proposition with absolutely no geopolitical data points to back it.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#73
post #6

This makes you wonder if we might see a resurgence in old school control systems without processors, and def no networks. The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. All else being equal it's more expensive, but not compared to being unable to keep your network safe from attack. You need to reconfigure the line? Send eight techs down one by one to set new parameter…

In a lot of conflicts today the Kalashnikov is the highest tech used in combat so these simple systems are more the rule than the exception.

High tech combat gear with VR and exoskeletons is more of a gun dealer's wet dream(e.g. costs a ton, breaks often) than anything that usually gets deployed.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#74
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. By enlisting thousands of young women to watch the knobs and dial buttons. https://outrider.org/nuclear-weapons/articles/women-who-buil... They didn't even know they were building the bomb. They just had to enter the room, dial knobs back-and-forth for 8-hours/day, and then go home. Today, that sort of stuff SHOULD be a…

The youth unemployment rate in Iran is ~25%, overall rate is 10%. They issue their own fiat currency, and their GDP per capita is comparable to Thailand and Botswana. So yes, they can probably afford to have a bunch of people tweak knobs in a factory all day.

Are you implying that if they were a richer, more prosperous country, then they couldn't afford it? I'm confused

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#75

Israel is fighting for its existence. Iran leadership routinely makes threats to destroy America and Israel. This often get ignored or dismissed. But like waving a gun in a cops face. Well bad things happen. One nuke will piss America off. One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely. Iran is probably capable of this, or close. From Israel standpoint the logical step is to bomb Iran military into the Stone Age.…

They could push for the nuclear agreement to come back and get the IAEA inspectors in. Long term these clandestine operations won't work. If Iran gets a nuke, it won't be too long before Saudi also has one. Saudi did pay for Pakistans nuclear bomb. There is probably a knowledge and materials sharing agreement in place. Having a nuclear states in one of the most volatile areas in the world seems like a huge global issue.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#76
post #49

Israel is fighting for its existence. Iran leadership routinely makes threats to destroy America and Israel. This often get ignored or dismissed. But like waving a gun in a cops face. Well bad things happen. One nuke will piss America off. One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely. Iran is probably capable of this, or close. From Israel standpoint the logical step is to bomb Iran military into the Stone Age.…

>Life is hard when much of the world wants you dead. Well why is that?

Because people are anti-semitic. In this particular case, you have a muslim majority country on one side of the equation.

In case you really need this much of a primer: (some) Muslims don't like Jews because they're following Muhammad's lead. Specifically, Muhammad had this to say about Jews in one of the Hadith:

> The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, 'O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.' Only the Gharkad tree would not do that, because it is one of the trees of the Jews.

Of course the Jews (for their part) say that Muhammad was a false prophet. On balance though, they also say this about Jesus.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. By enlisting thousands of young women to watch the knobs and dial buttons. https://outrider.org/nuclear-weapons/articles/women-who-buil... They didn't even know they were building the bomb. They just had to enter the room, dial knobs back-and-forth for 8-hours/day, and then go home. Today, that sort of stuff SHOULD be a…

Not without scheduled Instagram breaks you won't.

I don’t know, with a good pair of headphones and podcasts, it could be tolerable

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#78

Israel is fighting for its existence. Iran leadership routinely makes threats to destroy America and Israel. This often get ignored or dismissed. But like waving a gun in a cops face. Well bad things happen. One nuke will piss America off. One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely. Iran is probably capable of this, or close. From Israel standpoint the logical step is to bomb Iran military into the Stone Age.…

> One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely.

lolwut? Absolute nonsense. A 60kt nuke, size of the largest India has ever tested, wouldn't even dose like half of Tel-Aviv's land area, let alone the whole country.

https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right?! Sorry for the empty comment, but I'm fascinated to know this is happening. If there's one place that bombs are unwelcome, it'd be a nuclear facility. One also wonders whether an Israeli planted the bomb, or an Iranian. You'd have to be pretty daring either way.

I'm guessing an Iranian. From articles I've read, it sounds like Mossad has a huge network of ethnic Iranian agents carrying out the ground work in Iran. This stuff is fascinating indeed. Here's a good read for you: https://archive.ph/uG9Lu https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/15/us/politics/iran-israel-m... How Israel, in Dark of Night, Torched Its Way to Iran’s Nuclear Secrets > The Mossad agents moving in on a warehous…

Thanks so much! I was just reading https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/revealed-how-a-secret-du... which says the same thing: an Iranian mole was crucial for Stuxnet, smuggling a USB stick into the airgapped facility.

I wonder what the calculus is like on whether to be an Iranian mole. Either the Israelis were blackmailing them into cooperating, or they're offering some very lucrative rewards, or the Iranian is doing it for some other reason (e.g. personal beliefs, or maybe just "being a super{hero,villain} for fun".)

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#80

Israel is fighting for its existence. Iran leadership routinely makes threats to destroy America and Israel. This often get ignored or dismissed. But like waving a gun in a cops face. Well bad things happen. One nuke will piss America off. One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely. Iran is probably capable of this, or close. From Israel standpoint the logical step is to bomb Iran military into the Stone Age.…

> One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely. Iran is probably capable of this, or close.

    Area of Hiroshima: 350.1 square miles
    Area of Israel: 8,019 square miles
Yeah I'd say [citation needed] for that.

> From Israel standpoint the logical step is to bomb Iran military into the Stone Age.

This really isn't helping you, because if you're an Iranian and your government says "That country over there says their only logical choice is to bomb us into the stone age!" well what do you expect to happen?

Of course, predictably, both countries can (and will) play the same game, distracting people from actual issues like corruption. In the end, both governments win, while people loses everywhere.

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