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China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

economist.com

131–140 of 349 posts

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#131

And I am betting that CCP will implode within the decade. If west is in decline please stop sending your top students abroad to study (and stay there). Great job promoting brain drain. I am tired of this unfounded narrative that the west is in decline. No, it’s not. It’s actually getting stronger by the day especially the US.

those students are being used as cover for espionage. Most have no idea.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#132

That's ridiculous.China is the one in irreversible decline. Most people in the West get to enjoy freedom and access to utilities money cant buy in China. 1) For once most people in the west have access to safe and good tap water.Chinese urban dwellers dont. 2) Most people in the west live in places with significantly better air quality than chinese. 3) Most people in the west get to enjoy freedoms chinese cant even t…

This is cope.

We've had numerous examples of third world style infrastructure failures (Flint water, Texas power outages) within the US that will likely continue. We have under invested in infrastructure for decades, while China has done quite the opposite.

Freedoms are increasingly becoming an illusion in the West. Saying something unpopular or taboo on the internet (even if it were years ago) is likely to cut you off from both your income and healthcare (as healthcare is tied to your employment).

All not to mention the simmering social unrest caused by insane income inequality, the levels of both private and public debt, and the likelihood of the dollar losing its reserve status in the next few decades. Things do not look good for the US.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#133

They are probably not wrong. When you look at the infighting within the US that is front page news every day...the decline is in full swing. People care less about how to actually improve the country than they do about trying to hold entire professions accountable for the actions of a few (not just cops)...then we are focused on the wrong things. Spending hundreds of days protesting something instead of putting that…

So, you’re suggesting that the USA is in decline because marginalized groups are demanding equal treatment? I’ll agree that police violence is a symptom of much larger systemic issues, but you seem to be implying that the larger systemic issue is... people are unhappy with the USA and they should stop being unhappy and support the USA. Have you considered why they might be unhappy, why they may very well have legitim…

> So, you’re suggesting that the USA is in decline because marginalized groups are demanding equal treatment?

Some demand equal treatment, some demand better treatment and other not only accept their life-style, but to consider their niche life-style as something more desirable than an average life style.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#134

That's ridiculous.China is the one in irreversible decline. Most people in the West get to enjoy freedom and access to utilities money cant buy in China. 1) For once most people in the west have access to safe and good tap water.Chinese urban dwellers dont. 2) Most people in the west live in places with significantly better air quality than chinese. 3) Most people in the west get to enjoy freedoms chinese cant even t…

You must be seriously disconnected from reality, both ways, to say something like this, like disconnected on a cyberpunk level. It's funny to even give the slightest thought of trying to rebunk some of those points lol.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#135

Wrong. China is not betting on it, rather the US is betting that China is betting on it, to poise China in an adversary role. China has plenty of its own problems to mind and its road to mondernization is far from over. It's the US that's in question. Why is it fussing over China so much? Why not mind its own business? Why blame everything on China when the US could spend the time improving lives for its own citizens…

Just as a commercial worker, if you look at trying to do business in China it seems China very much does think about foreigners and foreign business much more than most of the western world.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#136

They are probably not wrong. When you look at the infighting within the US that is front page news every day...the decline is in full swing. People care less about how to actually improve the country than they do about trying to hold entire professions accountable for the actions of a few (not just cops)...then we are focused on the wrong things. Spending hundreds of days protesting something instead of putting that…

> putting that time toward actually cleaning up neighborhoods or tutoring underprivileged youth The US has tried again and again these naively optimistic programs targeting “neighborhoods” and “the youth”, to no avail whatsoever. The terrible reality is that the long-term prospects of a civilization are inexorably dominated by its demographics, and the demographics of the US are spiraling down towards disaster. We ha…

What sort of eugenicist bs is this. Do you have a single source to back up these claims?

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#137

That's ridiculous.China is the one in irreversible decline. Most people in the West get to enjoy freedom and access to utilities money cant buy in China. 1) For once most people in the west have access to safe and good tap water.Chinese urban dwellers dont. 2) Most people in the west live in places with significantly better air quality than chinese. 3) Most people in the west get to enjoy freedoms chinese cant even t…

1 & 2) For once most people in the west have access to safe and good tap water.Chinese urban dwellers dont. Most people in the west live in places with significantly better air quality than chinese.

... As a frequent visitor to China I can tell you its a mixed bag. Many areas enjoy western levels of water and air quality. Many areas do not. What is lost in environmental quality is offset by an unprecedented ability to escape poverty, an academic meritocracy (albeit testing based), and rising income and wealth levels the West cannot presently match.

3) Most people in the west get to enjoy freedoms chinese cant even talk about

... In absolute terms a large number of Chinese ethnicities and religions are seriously repressed and abused. In aggregate however, the Chinese system catapulted so many of its citizens out of poverty and into the middle class you will find as much (if not more) national pride at China's rise than you will contempt. I sadly observe that certain freedoms may prove to be overrated compared to others, along the lines of Maslow.

4) West is attracting young people from all around the world.

... The West needs a reversal of the balance of payments. The West needs good paying middle class jobs. The West needs to re-domesticate much of its supply chain. The West needs to prepare for high intensity war in order to deter/prevent it. This laundry list of Western needs is incompatible with the expectations of today's 'young people' who are oblivious to these existential threats, great power decline and the relative unimportance of their priorities to their actual survival.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#138
Lenin was right. "Capitalists will sell to Communists the rope from which they will hang" That's exactly what is happening right now. USA outsourced much of its production to China (and elsewhere) and essentially handed over supply chain control to China. 80% of medical supplies are exported from China, along with rare earth metals, electronics, etc.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#139
I wish we (the USA) would take this opportunity to recognize China does some things in certain circumstances better than us and capitalize on that.

- Infrastructure (public transportation and high speed rail is far superior in China)

- Reproductive rights for women (abortion is available for all women in China)

There are others, but it doesn't need to be a battle. China has a ton of issues too (non-free media, Xinjiang situation, an 'end justifies the means' like view on things, lack of direct representation in their "democracy", etc.).

We should take the good and reject the bad. All of the posturing is bad for the world at large, I think.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#140

That's ridiculous.China is the one in irreversible decline. Most people in the West get to enjoy freedom and access to utilities money cant buy in China. 1) For once most people in the west have access to safe and good tap water.Chinese urban dwellers dont. 2) Most people in the west live in places with significantly better air quality than chinese. 3) Most people in the west get to enjoy freedoms chinese cant even t…

How many Mainland Chinese do you actually know? Have you talked to them?

My in-laws are all Mainland Chinese. They have access to safe and good tap water, either back in their home town literally in the mountains or in a big city like Wuhan.

Air quality is not great, I'll give you that. But it's also not the worst, at least not in every measure. E.g. many big cities in China had lower NO2 levels than other big cities in other country, in 2016, and those numbers come from NASA: https://airquality.gsfc.nasa.gov/no2/world/east-asia/wuhan

The majority of the people in China don't care about the kind of freedom you talk about. As a nation, they seem to have a very singular goal: follow the Party, make progress, and beat the rest of the world.

China is also attracting lots of young people from other parts of the world. There are quite a few twitter accounts of Laowais who seem to enjoy life in China because they've seen past the values of the West.

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