Just Be Rich • Hacker News Board

Re: Just Be Rich

#511

Post by goodpoint » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 11:58 AM UTC

rini17 wrote: post #469

southerntofu wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Capitalism is called the 'least worst' system Capitalism is only called "least worst" by capitalists themselves. Much of humanity considers capitalism "the worst". > Give a viable alternative that doesn't descend into fascism So, to give some historic perspective, capitalism is precisely the root cause of fascism. All totalitarian systems are capitalist by essence, and historic fascism in France, Germany, Italy, Gr…

You are making the same mistake as all the revolutionaries you mention - you completely disregard the problem of efficiently allocating limited resources, and that there are vast differences in capabilities of different people to do it. In other words, merely putting the means of production into hands of workers and asking them to manage these by consensus does not guarantee "society in which nobody has to worry for…

> I'm genuinely interested, was there any leftist intellectual honestly willing to learn from these failures

Pure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

Re: Just Be Rich

#512

Post by nindalf » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 11:58 AM UTC

vekker wrote: post #506

nindalf wrote: post #151

OP mentions PG’s article arguing against a wealth tax. That article is short, simple and to the point - Modelling a Wealth Tax ( http://www.paulgraham.com/wtax.html ). It is so compelling, but also misleading and wrong. Its not easy to spot the sleights of hand he uses. I wrote more about it here - Modelling a Wealth Tax Correctly ( https://blog.nindalf.com/posts/wealth-tax/ ). And yet, I think the simplicity of PG’s…

Simplicity is also often an indicator of truth. I think you completely missed another important point hidden in PG's article, besides the obvious compounding effect, and that is that unrealized gains would be taxed under a wealth tax regime. To simplify with a ridiculous example: suppose I have $0 to my name and I inherit a family art piece from my grandmother that happens to be valued at $2 million. The next year, u…

Let's say you inherited a home in the US valued at $2 million. You would pay 2% of that ($40,000) as property taxes, every year. If you can't afford to pay the tax, you would sell the house and pocket the $2 million.

Is this so terrible? Doesn't seem to have stopped people investing in property.

Re: Just Be Rich

#513

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 11:59 AM UTC

ozim wrote: post #451

d_silin wrote: post #7

A lot of people who are just as smart and motived as Elon Musk or Steve Jobs will never be able to start their own companies and get rich. Because they have family obligations that take priority. Because they live outside high-income countries. Because they have no access to support network, so when they fail, they fall all the way to bottom. Because they may have made a crippling mistake in their pasts that now prev…

Why people are doing this? How can you compare Elon or Steve Jobs wealth level to well anyone? There are CEO's of successful companies that worked their whole lives and never got to that level. Aiming for that is well crippling. People should aim to have a good life...

What's a good life?

I know what I want from life, and what it costs, and I don't want extravagance. I don't have the capital to spend the 4-12 years training to increase my earning potential. My lack of capital is no fault of my own, I lost the womb lottery, why must I be relegated to live a meager life toiling for decades and have nothing to show for it while these billionaires you mentioned steal more money in a month than I'll see in 10 lifetimes?

Re: Just Be Rich

#514

Post by bartimus » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 11:59 AM UTC

I would love to see the wealth gap broken down into liquid and illiquid assets.

Re: Just Be Rich

#515

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 12:02 PM UTC

credit_guy wrote: post #508

d_silin wrote: post #7

A lot of people who are just as smart and motived as Elon Musk or Steve Jobs will never be able to start their own companies and get rich. Because they have family obligations that take priority. Because they live outside high-income countries. Because they have no access to support network, so when they fail, they fall all the way to bottom. Because they may have made a crippling mistake in their pasts that now prev…

It's easy to tell yourself you are as good as Musk or Jobs or Bezos. And comforting. But there's also the possibility that they are truly different. More talented, more focused, more hard working, more driven. And more willing to take risks. I don't know any of these guys, but I know plenty of people who got much farther in life than me because they were simply better than me in some respect. I also know some people…

Even if you aren't the most talented and smartest person, having the advantages they did would still almost certainly mean you'd be in a better position then you would be without them.

Re: Just Be Rich

#516

Post by jordan314 » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 12:03 PM UTC

teddyh wrote: post #413

ironman1478 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Poverty doesn't just cause immediate issues it can also cause long term issues that can effect not only adults, but the children who grew up in that environment. This is largely because families in poverty tend to also abuse their kids at higher rates (this includes mental abuse) or at least foster an extremely unhealthy environment due to the stress it causes. So even a generation later it can be difficult for…

Whenever this topic comes up, I like to link to these excellent and eye-opening articles: • 5 Things Nobody Tells You About Being Poor , May 27, 2011: ( https://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about... ) • The 5 Stupidest Habits You Develop Growing Up Poor , January 19, 2012: ( https://www.cracked.com/blog/4-things-politicians-will-never... ) • 4 Things Politicians Will Never Understand About Poor Peop…

Second link: https://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-stupidest-habits-you-deve...

Re: Just Be Rich

#517

Post by specialist » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 12:04 PM UTC

d_silin wrote: post #7

A lot of people who are just as smart and motived as Elon Musk or Steve Jobs will never be able to start their own companies and get rich. Because they have family obligations that take priority. Because they live outside high-income countries. Because they have no access to support network, so when they fail, they fall all the way to bottom. Because they may have made a crippling mistake in their pasts that now prev…

> family obligations that take priority

There's a severe lack of small businesses in the USA. Totally fixable. So many low hanging fruit. Affordable health insurance and childcare would be revolutionary.

I forfeited my fledgling software startup, just as it started to gain traction, once we got pregnant. I needed insurance for my family.

For decades, young parents have struggled with health insurance, day care, and other really basic stuff. 30 years ago, cost of childcare was ridiculous, and very hard to find. Today, it's completely insane.

Of course new business formation is at historical lows. (Pre-pandemic, of course, in anticipation of the inevitable pedantry.)

Re: Just Be Rich

#518

Post by pydry » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 12:05 PM UTC

qPM9l3XJrF wrote: post #510

pydry wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got cause and effect reversed. Bill Gates started giving his money away after he was attacked for his anti competitive behavior and attempts to kill open source, etc. The rich donate because they are protecting their reputation and for the sake of their own self image (everybody needs to be the hero of their own story). The only ones who can manage that and not be charitable are the utterly self deluded (e.g.…

I suggest you watch the documentary Inside Bill's Brain https://www.netflix.com/title/80184771 Bill is way too invested in this stuff for it to be a cynical PR effort. And he himself states it was his mother who inspired him to give: https://www.businessinsider.com/bill-gates-mother-inspired-p... If Bill's giving was a cynical PR play, why would he be pushing other HNWs to give through the giving pledge? Wouldn't it…

I didn't state that it was completely a cynical PR effort nor do I think it was, but it's a reaction to a guilty conscience nonetheless. I think it's partly his way of resolving his cognitive dissonance over him not being a good person in pursuit of wealth and power.

For what it's worth, though, saying "my mother inspired me to do this" is precisely what a PR flack would advise him over "I was guilt tripped into this by my critics".

He does routinely use PR firms for image management.

Positivity sells and human interest sells and giving his critics more airtime would not be advantageous to him.

Mark Zuckerberg did the same thing here - note the title:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10658787

>Note also that a few years ago when Zuck pledged to donate 99% of his money, the internet erupted in incoherent anger.

The comments above read more like coherent suspicion rather than incoherent anger.

>For the supposed PR benefits of philanthropy there is a shocking lack of good PR.

Bill Gates has successfully repaired his image since the early 2ks. The fact that Mark Zuckerberg didn't repairs his overnight after acting the way he did previously is hardly proof that it doesn't work.

Re: Just Be Rich

#519

Post by jes » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 12:06 PM UTC

mhalle wrote: post #480

spyckie2 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think calling it a wealth gap really misses the point - it's a stability gap. Most upper-middle individuals pass on socio-economic stability to the next generation. Most middle and lower class pass on instability. Wealth is a small part of it.

I was agreeing with your comment until the last sentence. Wealth is stable access to money, which is a fungible resource. Used appropriately, it can provide access to stability that would otherwise be inaccessible. Without such a resource, other factors of instability more likely to be chronic or even inescapable.

Can we ever really know if we are using a resource appropriately?

I’m thinking of the story “The Chinese Farmer” as told by Alan Watts.

Re: Just Be Rich

#520

Post by vekker » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 12:07 PM UTC

nindalf wrote: post #512

vekker wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simplicity is also often an indicator of truth. I think you completely missed another important point hidden in PG's article, besides the obvious compounding effect, and that is that unrealized gains would be taxed under a wealth tax regime. To simplify with a ridiculous example: suppose I have $0 to my name and I inherit a family art piece from my grandmother that happens to be valued at $2 million. The next year, u…

Let's say you inherited a home in the US valued at $2 million. You would pay 2% of that ($40,000) as property taxes, every year . If you can't afford to pay the tax, you would sell the house and pocket the $2 million. Is this so terrible? Doesn't seem to have stopped people investing in property.

Uh, if that's true then yes, that seems really awful, but the market probably also makes it so the real estate prices are adjusted to that taxation regime, because buyers and sellers can take that into account before settling the transaction.

With a wealth tax, you can't escape it. You would have to liquidate (parts of) your own company or other illiquid property (which might not even be possible depending on how illiquid it really is) in order to pay a tax. That doesn't seem right to me at all.

Again, why would you do that, if there are much better alternatives possible (like I said, higher capital gains taxes as an example).

(For context: I'm not from the USA and property taxes are not calculated on a percentage of the value of your property where I live. I'm just using USD in my example because I know there are mostly Americans here.)