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CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

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Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#101
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At some point you need to convert your crypto gains back to fiat to actually use it Except you don't. It's a currency. Just because it's hot right now and people are treating it like an investment doesn't change the fact that it's a currency itself. You don't need to convert it to anything. It was literally built to be a currency free from bank/government control. That was the whole point. The sole criterion for the…

Okay, sure, let's consider it a currency for the sake of argument. I would posit that if I can't easily exchange my crypto into a form that I can use to pay taxes with, or buy groceries with, that it's a useless currency, and so people will be able to but won't want to accept it in a trade. Currencies aren't useful simply because they _can_ be traded, they're useful because they _can_ be trusted.

It is a currency. I've bought stuff with it. There's literally a BTC ATM in my local liquor store. There's a famous strip club(!) in Portland that accepts BTC. There many, many more examples: https://coinsutra.com/who-accepts-bitcoins/

>Currencies aren't useful simply because they _can_ be traded, they're useful because they _can_ be trusted.

If people trade them, it's because they already trust them.

That's why I said 'sole criterion'. Say you think fiat currencies, and the USD is a terrible and untrustworthy currency. The market doesn't care. It's viable because it's accepted. Acceptance in trade is all that matters.

Another example: Baby food is as good as cash to drug dealers. The implications of that are disquieting, but don't change the fact that it's true one bit.

When it comes to a currency, acceptance in trade trumps all. Nobody's feelings or long held beliefs matter in the slightest. The growing acceptance of crypto is why it's become seen as an investment, not the other way around.

Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Central bankers are often pro-cash but anti-bitcoin. They dont want competition.

> They dont want competition Which is another way of saying they want absolute control, which in this case is the absurd charade where "inflation" measures that they claim represent life on the ground exclude the essentials like education, healthcare, and housing.

I liked the take from the Mayor of Miami (from a podcast about cryptocurrency):

"they [governments] will have to borrow money like everybody else borrows money, they can't just print their own money. They have to borrow money at an interest rate. And if governments don't behave fiscally then they are going to have to borrow at worse and worse rates. They can't just invent their own interest rates and currency, which manipulates how markets work...

We in the city of miami, we're forced to balance our budget, we actually have a surplus, about $150 million in surplus and we have some of the lowest tax rates in the history of the city."

Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#103
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Whatever your stance on cryptocurrencies are, what is of little dispute is the business opportunities they have created. Binance and Coinbase are large, successful companies. What business opportunities have been created outside of the crypto space? > i feel nations who embrace cryptocurrencies early will see mixed results as the landscape matures. They may also leave themselves open to these currencies being manipu…

Indeed, not an expert... but what is a state actor stopping form putting extraordinary resources (say NSA for instance) in mining and minting to gain an advantage? And how bad is that?

It wouldn't even need to be just mining. I'm assuming there have to be at least a few zero days present on the asics at large miners. Just mucking up the network enough to scare enough people to panic sell could cause massive chaos.

Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#104

> U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen and other officials have warned about the use of cryptocurrencies for illicit transactions. Wait until you hear about cash. More seriously (and hopefully less reductionist) i feel nations who embrace cryptocurrencies early will see mixed results as the landscape matures. I am more confident that nations which turn their back on it, or shut it out completely, will see a loss of o…

> Whatever your stance on cryptocurrencies are, what is of little dispute is the business opportunities they have created. Binance and Coinbase are large, successful companies. Poloniex was sold for ~400M.

This is the broken window fallacy writ large. The small value cryptocurrencies provide over other digital transaction methods is overshadowed by the huge inefficiencies of how transactions are processed via PoW. The fact that there are companies that have made a fortune dealing with all these "broken windows" doesn't change the basic fact that cryptocurrency is probably the least energy efficient way to move money digitally.

Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#105
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hows that better than a bank account? You can hold CHF on a bank account as well and it keeps the same value as the note. (both lose value due to inflation) Also dont forget insurance for banknotes in a safe.

> Hows that better than a bank account? GP said it, negative interest rate, i.e. the bank charging you to hold on to your money when you have more than a certain amount (was it 100k or 25k CHF). So if you put in 100k in the bank and wait a year, you'll be able to withdraw maybe 99.8k CHF. If you hoard 100x 1000 CHF notes, you'll still have 100k CHF. Sure in 1 year those 100k CHF will probably buy less Big Macs then t…

Its meaningless, if someone puts over 100k on a bank account where inflation eats it away they probably dont care about interest rates and its just a fraction of someone holdings that is deposited at super low risk/high availability. This only makes sense if you have way more and the rest is actually invested and grows. Storing you whole savings like that is rather stupid regardless of if you reach the limit and pay interest rates or not. and putting it as banknotes in a safe is similar stupid potentially even more stupid because there is real chance you physically lose it all.

Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#106
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At some point you need to convert your crypto gains back to fiat to actually use it Except you don't. It's a currency. Just because it's hot right now and people are treating it like an investment doesn't change the fact that it's a currency itself. You don't need to convert it to anything. It was literally built to be a currency free from bank/government control. That was the whole point. The sole criterion for the…

Currencies derive their value from government control. That's why BTC is an investment, not a currency. Until and unless the IRS accepts tax payments in a cryptocurrency, they won't be used in the mainstream economy.

>Currencies derive their value from government control.

There are countless examples that prove this false. World of Warcraft gold, EVE Online ISK, BTC, Ethereum, Dogecoin, baby food, etc. There are literally jobs in developing countries where farming in game money is a job that pays their bills. Yet we both know that no government is in control of those currencies.

>Until and unless the IRS accepts tax payments in a cryptocurrency, they won't be used in the mainstream economy.

I'm surprised they don't already. They're already used in mainstream economy if you count buying things on amazon or Subway.

Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#108
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cash argument is not a good take at all. When you travel with large amounts of cash people ask questions, you are obligated to declare it when crossing borders if it’s over certain amount(over 0,25BTC as USD will make you fill out declarations and it may be confiscated until you can prove that it is legitimately yours) depositing it to your bank account rings all kind of bells, the banks can refuse to work with y…

> cash is no good anymore. Crime is gone now? What else are they going to use? Crypto is used by less than 1% of the world. All crime uses "cash" relatively speaking. *a lot of it is "digital" cash but still.

That’s not my argument. Crime is not gone, tools are changing and the enforcers are trying to catch up.

Cash is now for petty criminals only. For anything beyond car level of money you need involvement of politicians or high end criminals.

They tend to use gold and fake bank transactions BTW.

Just today there is a trial of the Turkish bank Halk Bank that was allegedly caught laundering money for Iran. High ranking Turkish and Iranian politicians are involved, the funds in form of gold were transferred using private jets and laundered through Dubai. The defense of the person who run the gold operations includes Rudy Giuliani. The things are at that level now.

Start digging from here if you want to know more: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reza_Zarrab

Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#109

> U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen and other officials have warned about the use of cryptocurrencies for illicit transactions. Wait until you hear about cash. More seriously (and hopefully less reductionist) i feel nations who embrace cryptocurrencies early will see mixed results as the landscape matures. I am more confident that nations which turn their back on it, or shut it out completely, will see a loss of o…

> Whatever your stance on cryptocurrencies are, what is of little dispute is the business opportunities they have created. Binance and Coinbase are large, successful companies. Poloniex was sold for ~400M.

I find this argument a little weird, because I think we can all agree that bubbles and fad tech isn't really great for society as a whole. If you believe cryptocurrencies aren't a fad and actually provide useful benefits to real people (which does not include "we built a company that does crypto stuff and made a bunch of money"), then ok, fair opinion, but I don't share that view. To me it just looks like a big house of cards built on something that is fundamentally not that useful or valuable, but is propped up mainly by speculation. Building a company on top of it that is sold for $400M is great for the founders and investors in that company, but doesn't mean that crypto itself is useful for society.

I apply this to other things, too... there are ton of lucrative, successful businesses built on top of and around internet advertising, but I think that entire ecosystem is a huge net negative for society.

Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#110

Crackdown on current state of crypto can only help it in the long run, if you actually really believe it. Right now it’s market mostly dedicated to get rich quick schemes. While it works great if you’re on top of the pyramid, it’s only hurting crypto case for the future.

DeFi has a legitimate use case and NFTs have an astonishing number of use cases. Smart Contracts are an incredible, incredible innovation. We are at the tip of the iceberg and nothing has been more disappointing than seeing the traditional tech world's dismissal of crypto as "get rich schemes". The tech world is surprisingly as complacent now as the legacy dinosaurs it first helped destroy in the 1990s and 2000s.

Traditional tech innovation was predicated on doing things more efficiently (sometimes orders of magnitude more efficiently) using new technology, thus disrupting incumbents. Blockchain reverses this completely by doing simple things, like changing numbers in a database, for orders of magnitude more computational (energy) cost. Until someone squares this circle I will continue to be skeptical.
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