Naive aside, but why would I want to use ElasticSearch or OpenSearch over Solr? Are ES and Solr not both based on Lucene?
OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
71–80 of 438 posts
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#72It's hard for me to know whether to feel bad for ES in this case. Did they bring it on themselves? Is Amazon too big and a bully? From my perspective, Amazon has made most of its profit price gouging consumers on bandwidth after vendor locking them into their ecosystem, where they bootstrap new services by wrapping open source software with some provisioning scripts, management dashboards and cookie-cutter API / cons…
As a longtime ElasticSearch cluster admin/developer and Elastic Cloud customer, I don't feel bad for Elastic in the slightest and I'm psyched about this fork. The way they operate their cloud service leaves a lot to be desired and encourages maximum spend if you end up wanting to use it for anything demanding in production.
This is really a shame to hear. There was once a an Elastic SaaS company from Norway called found.io that were pretty sharp and customer-centric. They were acquired be Elastic pretty early on[1]. I believe Elastic Cloud was built from this. I guess found.io's culture of delivering a good product didn't survive?
https://www.elastic.co/about/press/elastic-acquires-elastics...
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#73It's hard for me to know whether to feel bad for ES in this case. Did they bring it on themselves? Is Amazon too big and a bully? From my perspective, Amazon has made most of its profit price gouging consumers on bandwidth after vendor locking them into their ecosystem, where they bootstrap new services by wrapping open source software with some provisioning scripts, management dashboards and cookie-cutter API / cons…
How is it price gouging if the price is on the tin? It isn't like there's a "surprise" as to how much they charge, and it isn't like there aren't a dozen alternatives including DIY. I'm the first to say that AWS is too expensive, and I vote with my wallet (and the company I work for by proxy). But I'll never claim that there's any gouging involved.
Price gouging is the practice of using outsized leverage in a particular market to charge excessive prices. Like snow shovels doubling in price after a snow storm. Or $10 water bottles after a hurricane.
So for AWS the term is arguably correctly applied.
But I'd be more worried about the market if AWS was artificially undercutting pricing because it would kill the incentive to create competitors or innovation in the space.
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's absolutely price gouging. I'm not going to rant about this for the 100th time, but at least I'm in good company [0]. Do the math on the cost you pay if you saturate 1gbps for a month vs. the cost you pay for 1gbps IP transit at basically any colocation provider. Really this is the secret sauce of the cloud. Create new abstraction layers where you can charge for logical separation on a physical basis. First VMs,…
boy howdy, with all the flak i hear about this and the awesome talent in tech, you'd figure an entrepreneur or 1000 would take a stab at this, make it better, charge less. apparently there's gazillions to be made by even charging 50 percent of what AWS does. so, when should we expect this gloriously efficient competitive market to kick in to action? my guess is that the AWS ecosystem, despite "price gouging", is simp…
There's tons of businesses that are happy to charge less for bandwidth; so it's clear Amazon (and some of the other high tier cloud services) are overcharging on this maybe by a factor of 10, although since transit bits are not all equal, someone with more detail could make a case that the overcharging is less.
It's easyish to compete on bandwidth costs, but Amazon has a lot of other features many people want; it's harder to replicate all of those, especially the part about having a long history of operating such services and not making a lot of changes to make things more expensive or otherwise more difficult. Having to pay a much higher than market price for an easily replaced good in order to get a good that's less easily replaced is textbook anti-competive bundling.
If your bandwidth usage is high enough, maybe it makes sense to send it all through AWS direct connect, and pay for transit yourself; although even then, the AWS direct pricing seems a bit high.
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In fact, Amazon contributes very little to open source in general, considering how much they take from it I don’t think this is a fact. Amazon seems to contribute pretty significantly according to the pages [0,1] they put out that describes their contributions. Not to mention their membership in OSS foundations like Linux Foundation. [2] You have the caveat about in relation to benefit they gain, but that’s pretty…
The absolute claim, aside from being at home in a rant on HN, comes from a cursory glance at https://github.com/amzn , weighted by contributors and popularity, and compared to companies of similar size. Google, Microsoft and Facebook all build and maintain multiple open source projects that are hugely popular with people who use them outside of the company sandboxes. For example, people benefit from React without Fac…
A better URL to look at is https://github.com/enterprises/amazon.
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#76> and we don’t ask for a contributor license agreement (CLA)
Makes me wonder what these are for (copyright transfer) and why they decided it’s not needed. It also makes me wonder if this sort of thing has ever been taken/tested in court or if it’s paranoid friction with little value add.
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
The absolute claim, aside from being at home in a rant on HN, comes from a cursory glance at https://github.com/amzn , weighted by contributors and popularity, and compared to companies of similar size. Google, Microsoft and Facebook all build and maintain multiple open source projects that are hugely popular with people who use them outside of the company sandboxes. For example, people benefit from React without Fac…
A better URL to look at is https://github.com/enterprises/amazon .
That is a 404, so not better.
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#78Will be interesting to see the resources that AWS will throw at this. You can get a sense of the resource that elastic.co is throwing at elasticsearch at
https://public-001.gitsense.com/insights/github/repos?r=gith...
I'm currently indexing the fork, so in about an hour or two, I'll provide the insights for the fork as well.
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#79I'm glad they changed the name. Although it's probably too much to ask that the AWS service be renamed to OpenSearch Service as well.
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it really price gouging for bandwidth? Or is bandwidth just really expensive in general? I honestly don't know. I would assume if it was actually much cheaper one of the cloud's would undercut the other to get customers.
It really is price gouging - bandwidth is actually cheap. A couple of comparisons: Oracle Cloud give you 10TB of bandwidth for free, with overage charged at around €7.5/TB. You can rent a VPS from the likes of Hetzner, and they will throw in 2-20TB of bandwidth for free, with overage charged at something like €1/TB - AWS charge an eye-watering €125 for each TB! I think the reason the big 3 (AWS, Azure, GCP) still cha…
You know you're greedy when Oracle is cheaper