This is just sad, amazon playing the victim.
OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
51–60 of 438 posts
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#52It's hard for me to know whether to feel bad for ES in this case. Did they bring it on themselves? Is Amazon too big and a bully? From my perspective, Amazon has made most of its profit price gouging consumers on bandwidth after vendor locking them into their ecosystem, where they bootstrap new services by wrapping open source software with some provisioning scripts, management dashboards and cookie-cutter API / cons…
One thing which surprised me: Elastic has a market capitalization of ~$11B. I think that changes some of the more floaty ethical concerns. This is not a David vs Goliath situation. This is Goliath vs Super-Goliath. At this point, I'm much less interested in the drama of which mega-corp is screwing over the other. I'm more interested in: how does it affect me? When the titans are done trampling over the rest of us, wh…
Uhmmm I’m pretty sure David vs Goliath is talking about scale between competition. Saying that $11B is Goliath just because you’re sitting at $1M doesn’t mean they’re not in a crazy mismatched fight against a $2T company. In the same way you could be in a David vs Goliath situation yourself if you with $1M in wealth tried to sue someone with $25K of wealth. Everything is relative. Doesn’t mean it’s not a crazy unfair mismatch that doesn’t deserve sympathy and regret.
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
One thing which surprised me: Elastic has a market capitalization of ~$11B. I think that changes some of the more floaty ethical concerns. This is not a David vs Goliath situation. This is Goliath vs Super-Goliath. At this point, I'm much less interested in the drama of which mega-corp is screwing over the other. I'm more interested in: how does it affect me? When the titans are done trampling over the rest of us, wh…
Uhmmm I’m pretty sure David vs Goliath is talking about scale between competition. Saying that $11B is Goliath just because you’re sitting at $1M doesn’t mean they’re not in a crazy mismatched fight against a $2T company. In the same way you could be in a David vs Goliath situation yourself if you with $1M in wealth tried to sue someone with $25K of wealth. Everything is relative. Doesn’t mean it’s not a crazy unfair…
When there are two large entities (and I take this to mean way larger than you or your company) then you’re better off rooting for the one that at least releases code you can use.
If OpenSearch is truely open then in theory you can find another provider. But for ElasticSearch you’re stuck with them.
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it really price gouging for bandwidth? Or is bandwidth just really expensive in general? I honestly don't know. I would assume if it was actually much cheaper one of the cloud's would undercut the other to get customers.
It really is price gouging - bandwidth is actually cheap. A couple of comparisons: Oracle Cloud give you 10TB of bandwidth for free, with overage charged at around €7.5/TB. You can rent a VPS from the likes of Hetzner, and they will throw in 2-20TB of bandwidth for free, with overage charged at something like €1/TB - AWS charge an eye-watering €125 for each TB! I think the reason the big 3 (AWS, Azure, GCP) still cha…
I totally agree, but was stunned to see DigitalOcean charging $0.10/GB for outbound transfer for their new (quite cool imo) apps service. You do get 40GB-100GB included, but it means it's unusable for bandwidth heavy apps. They include 1TB (which is pooled across all VMs) and 0.01/GB on their standard platform.
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not to mention the support is pretty slow to respond and rarely respond adequately. At my current client we started with their cloud and in a few months deployed our own in Kubernetes using the official operator. It's a lot cheaper and gives us fewer headaches this way.
My favorite moment as a customer dealing with all of the random times _they_ would take us down (even with triple redundancy) was their suggestion of operating a duplicate 3 datacenter cluster in production as a hot spare. They must think their customers are cash machines.
I mean if they were truely best of breed they wouldn’t have needed a license change now would they?
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#56It's hard for me to know whether to feel bad for ES in this case. Did they bring it on themselves? Is Amazon too big and a bully? From my perspective, Amazon has made most of its profit price gouging consumers on bandwidth after vendor locking them into their ecosystem, where they bootstrap new services by wrapping open source software with some provisioning scripts, management dashboards and cookie-cutter API / cons…
What's worse is the second order repercussions. Future open core/open source SaaSes will go straight to something like the Business Source License or the MongoDB license instead of traditional libre licenses. Amazon has done an incredible amount of damage to the open ecosystem.
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's absolutely price gouging. I'm not going to rant about this for the 100th time, but at least I'm in good company [0]. Do the math on the cost you pay if you saturate 1gbps for a month vs. the cost you pay for 1gbps IP transit at basically any colocation provider. Really this is the secret sauce of the cloud. Create new abstraction layers where you can charge for logical separation on a physical basis. First VMs,…
boy howdy, with all the flak i hear about this and the awesome talent in tech, you'd figure an entrepreneur or 1000 would take a stab at this, make it better, charge less. apparently there's gazillions to be made by even charging 50 percent of what AWS does. so, when should we expect this gloriously efficient competitive market to kick in to action? my guess is that the AWS ecosystem, despite "price gouging", is simp…
What competitive market?
Nobody else can give you bandwidth out of Amazon data centers. Amazon's advantage is having a ton of services that work together, and they take advantage of it to price gouge on bandwidth.
If you're buying a standalone CDN service you can get massively better rates.
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's absolutely price gouging. I'm not going to rant about this for the 100th time, but at least I'm in good company [0]. Do the math on the cost you pay if you saturate 1gbps for a month vs. the cost you pay for 1gbps IP transit at basically any colocation provider. Really this is the secret sauce of the cloud. Create new abstraction layers where you can charge for logical separation on a physical basis. First VMs,…
boy howdy, with all the flak i hear about this and the awesome talent in tech, you'd figure an entrepreneur or 1000 would take a stab at this, make it better, charge less. apparently there's gazillions to be made by even charging 50 percent of what AWS does. so, when should we expect this gloriously efficient competitive market to kick in to action? my guess is that the AWS ecosystem, despite "price gouging", is simp…
Your point that "AWS has a bunch of other benefits to where people just accept the bandwidth costs so they can leverage those other benefits" doesn't actually counter the original claim that "the bandwidth costs are outrageously overpriced".
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
My favorite moment as a customer dealing with all of the random times _they_ would take us down (even with triple redundancy) was their suggestion of operating a duplicate 3 datacenter cluster in production as a hot spare. They must think their customers are cash machines.
I mean if they were truely best of breed they wouldn’t have needed a license change now would they?
Indeed, although I'd say for a majority of situations, Amazon's hosted Elasticsearch service is a complete non-starter.
Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana
#60What about the thing that is already named OpenSearch?
Yeah the original OpenSearch project is a different enough domain that I think confusion will be minimal. We have talked to the maintainer and he is supportive. We have also posted disambiguation in case anyone does get confused. https://opensearch.org/disambiguation.html