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French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

reuters.com

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Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#301

Post by fulafel »

gamblor956 wrote: post #109
ajross wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. In France. In nations like the US (outside the DC-to-Boston corridor anyway) without a well-designed and -maintained rail infastructure, 1-2 hour flights are routine and not really replaceable with other options. Infrastructure investment pays off for decades and decades, and Europe has done really well here. > However, if y…

In nations like the US (outside the DC-to-Boston corridor anyway) without a well-designed and -maintained rail infastructure, The U.S. has the world's best designed and maintained rail infrastructure. It's simply that, unlike every other country with a national rail network, America's rail system is designed for freight traffic, because now and historically passenger traffic in America has always been such a small po…

What kinds of things do you feel make it superior in design to eg central europe?

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#302

Post by kergonath »

nraynaud wrote: post #24
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #4

There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. However, if you're already arriving or leaving on a long distance flight, the whole overhead of getting to/from/through the airport disappears and those 1.5 hours start making a difference. I think forcing companies to advertise more honest flight durations and prices could make a huge difference. If the airline tells you that…

remember that now you're supposed to be in the train 20min in advance, and connecting across stations in Paris with heavy luggage and kids is a shit show (and a non-starter for foreigners, they just call a taxi, and as the most visited country in the world, this detail should matter) But I hope it increases the frequency of bullet trains to and from CDG TGV, this train station never had a useful train time for my air…

> remember that now you're supposed to be in the train 20min in advance

That is not true. They show the platform on the screens at the station 20 minutes in advance. I think they recommend being 5 minutes in advance, but they let anyone board as long as the doors are open.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#303

Post by cycomanic »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #282
belorn wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When we compare train and air travel here in Sweden, the issues are far away from being about time, UX or advertisements. The rail system has been stagnated in the last 40-50 years and maintenance neglected. The rail is not straight and gives a lot of lateral movement, vibration and noise. The train departments are not sound isolated or have air condition. The speed limit (as a result of the neglect) makes the trip s…

Main French lines are (for the time being at least) in fairly good shape and there's new investment being done. They've opened two new high speed lines relatively recently: Paris - Strasbourg (near Germany in the east of the country) in 2016 and Paris - Bordeaux (near Spain, in the south-west) in 2017. Generally speaking, taking the train in France is a rather good experience. The trains are quiet and confortable, es…

I think for travelling to/from Paris the French train system is absolutely amazing. I mean the TGV from Bordeaux to Paris takes 2h for ~550km, nothing can beat that. That's the advantage of the fact that France is very centralised around Paris. Germany has the ICE which is also fast, but it needs to stop much more often, because the way Germany is structured means trips are much more spread out and not so much of a star shape (like France).

To the OP complaining about Sweden, I actually don't find the train service in Sweden so bad. Sure it's not on the same level as France and Germany, but the trip between Stockholm and Gothenburg is still fast enough even discounting the added time of getting into the center, parking etc. you have 3h for the train vs 5h by car. And the cost is ~30 euros. I also find the complaint about motion sickness funny, compared to planes and cars the Swedish trains are still very smooth.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#304

Post by ivan1783 »

crazygringo wrote: post #145

EDIT: Thanks to commenters below, looks like my concerns aren't valid after all -- CDG has a train station and airlines there sell air tickets with a train connection. I didn't know about either of those -- seems like France has this figured out in a way other places haven't. (original comment below) --- I can appreciate the logic behind a ban on this for single-hop trips . But if you're flying into a hub and want to…

If you take Paris as an example, CDG has a train station in it. The airline will sell you the train ticket together with the plane tickets so you just get a second ticket which looks like a plane ticket except for the train. You literally go to the basement of CDG and get on the train. I've done this many times in CDG and also in FRA (Frankfurt) and the tickets are issued as valid on any train between the two destinations, so even if your flight is delayed, you just wait for the next train and get on it. The train thing is really a non-issue.

Your second point does however seem valid, I guess the airlines will reroute around French airports and fly to nearby countries in Europe to get around this regulation. Hopefully this law doesn't cause more harm than good...

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#305

Post by ivan1783 »

kazen44 wrote: post #188
Befterriager wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> will I just book a flight via Brussels (New York -> Brussels -> Lyon) because that will still be fine... Or Amsterdam flying KLM which is a way better airport than Paris Charles de Gaulle anyway (and arguably a better airline than Air France). Or any German airport flying Lufthansa.

its kind of funny that air France is considered worse then KLM considering they are the same company..

They both have their own staff, airplanes and general policies. They are under the same umbrella but far from the same company.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#306

Post by ivan1783 »

conradfr wrote: post #121
bjeds wrote: post #35

I wonder what the unintended consequences are with this measure. Here are some: 1) I can imagine weird situations where a multi-leg flight could be broken up by this ban, especially if you are traveling from the middle of nowhere (connected to a smaller airport in France) and you are flying to another middle of nowhere place (connected by _another_ smaller airport in France). Instead of having one flight, you now hav…

Apparently the law has an exception for connecting flights but I'm not sure it will work in practice.

You have a source?

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#307

Post by ivan1783 »

multiplegeorges wrote: post #92
benja123 wrote: post #34

Overall I am for this, but I do wonder if most short domestic flights are business trips. I can definitely imagine a situation where if I was taking frequent day trips for work and that extra 30 minutes to an hour is the difference between me seeing me kid before they go to sleep or not choosing to take the flights.

To me, the best solution to this kind of scenario is video calling, which is currently being normalized and will be readily accepted going forward.

You are clearly not from Europe X) Huge privacy concerns here about that kind of stuff, I've not been on one video call since the start of the rona...

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#308

Post by msh »

amomo wrote: post #285

Also we (in France) try to put back the night trains. They were removed during the 2 or 3 last decades because they were not competitive enough

I have taken night trains from denmark to germany. They suck big time, almost any other kind of transport would be prefered (maybe excluding bus).

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#309

Post by cycomanic »

pyrale wrote: post #172
xalava wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is pretty exceptional in its lack of rails. There is also a Seattle-San Diego. Enjoyable as a tourist, but probably not suited for business purposes except in the last portions. In France some high speed trains go now directly to airports (CDG,LYO). So it is becoming possible to chain a plane and a train in a few scenarios.

> In France some high speed trains go now directly to airports (CDG,LYO). ... The trains departing from there are mostly low-cost trains rather than trains meant to be connecting with flights, and people taking them have to move to CDG instead of a better location. It seems to be a service aimed at salvaging the infrastructure rather than an actual useful service.

One of the best examples of air/train integration is Frankfurt, which has the high-speed trainstop underneath the airport. You are much faster on the train than getting into your car and you pretty much have an ICE going to Cologne, Hamburg or Munich (not sure about direct ones to Berlin), going every 45min or so.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#310

Post by msh »

ornornor wrote: post #277
fy20 wrote: post #272

I grew up in the UK and from a late teen until my mid twenties I travelled by train across the country every week or so. I took the train as it was convenient for my route (no changes) and it didn't make sense to have a car for the rare times I used it (I'd commute to work by train or bike). There were long distance busses, but the times weren't convenient and they had even less leg room than aircraft. The one thing…

I think this has to do with privatization. If trains were run by the government (sure, less efficient but also no need to feed greedy shareholders), it would be much cheaper.

Dont think so.

In denmark trains are run by the government, but its still cheaper (at least pre-covid, dont know at the moment) to take a plane from Copenhagen to Århus (capital to next biggest city).

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