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French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights
281–290 of 361 posts
Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights
#282There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. However, if you're already arriving or leaving on a long distance flight, the whole overhead of getting to/from/through the airport disappears and those 1.5 hours start making a difference. I think forcing companies to advertise more honest flight durations and prices could make a huge difference. If the airline tells you that…
When we compare train and air travel here in Sweden, the issues are far away from being about time, UX or advertisements. The rail system has been stagnated in the last 40-50 years and maintenance neglected. The rail is not straight and gives a lot of lateral movement, vibration and noise. The train departments are not sound isolated or have air condition. The speed limit (as a result of the neglect) makes the trip s…
Main French lines are (for the time being at least) in fairly good shape and there's new investment being done. They've opened two new high speed lines relatively recently: Paris - Strasbourg (near Germany in the east of the country) in 2016 and Paris - Bordeaux (near Spain, in the south-west) in 2017.
Generally speaking, taking the train in France is a rather good experience. The trains are quiet and confortable, especially the high-speed ones but even regular trains are fine. Newer carriages have power outlets at the seats and are well ventilated.
The issues people here fear the most are strikes (which is the national sport, particularly in public transportation) and the creeping-up of prices, especially now that there won't be any more competition from planes.
Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
In general though flying is much safer than highway driving. If one wanted to minimize risk, one would always fly.
The difference in relative risk is high, but the absolute risk of dying in a car is still pretty low if you're sober, wearing a seatbelt, and not speeding. Oh, and apparently if you're not driving in the U.S. Geez, didn't realize we're such crappy drivers here. https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/motor-vehicle-safety/index.ht...
It's mostly not that people in the US drive worse, it's that people in the US drive more. Similar risk multiplied by more miles leads to more fatalities.
Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is hub-and-spoke approach of many national carriers (Air France included). Covid travel restrictions aside, one can buy an air itinerary that gets them from NYC to Bordeaux (or Nice, or Nantes, or Toulouse, or Marseille, or Lyon, or Strasbourg) all via CDG. That airport train station is set up to transport the passengers from the airport to the city center, not inter-city travel. Air France is right to co…
NYC-MAD-BOD is a bit closer... My advice is to avoid transferring at CDG at all costs, but LHR is slightly worse imo. Maybe one day NYC-YUL-BOD will be a valid option to shave off a few hundred miles in the air, but that is another border.
AMS is currently a very typical option as there are links between Amsterdam and all major French cities. I used to take the LAX-AMS-BOD quite often before the pandemic.
Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights
#285Also we (in France) try to put back the night trains. They were removed during the 2 or 3 last decades because they were not competitive enough
Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights
#286I grew up in the UK and from a late teen until my mid twenties I travelled by train across the country every week or so. I took the train as it was convenient for my route (no changes) and it didn't make sense to have a car for the rare times I used it (I'd commute to work by train or bike). There were long distance busses, but the times weren't convenient and they had even less leg room than aircraft. The one thing…
Your question reminds me of this video by Wendover Productions:
Why Trains are so Expensive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwjwePe-HmA (12m38s)
Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights
#287Let's ban stuff instead of ensuring fair competition and better pricing of externalities.. Of interest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerosene_tax#Criticism_of_the_...
Indeed this change has several drawbacks:
- less competition for the affected routes
- harder transfers between modes of transportation (physically)
- harder bookings across modes of transportation
- disappearance of entire routes made possible by hubs from flight-only OTAs (the vast majority of them)
I agree with the sentiment, but I suppose they should just be taxed higher and somehow forced to include a note like:
“A train/bus transfer between CDG and XYZ is also available with . Wanna book just up to CDG?”
Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. In France. In nations like the US (outside the DC-to-Boston corridor anyway) without a well-designed and -maintained rail infastructure, 1-2 hour flights are routine and not really replaceable with other options. Infrastructure investment pays off for decades and decades, and Europe has done really well here. > However, if y…
The problem is hub-and-spoke approach of many national carriers (Air France included). Covid travel restrictions aside, one can buy an air itinerary that gets them from NYC to Bordeaux (or Nice, or Nantes, or Toulouse, or Marseille, or Lyon, or Strasbourg) all via CDG. That airport train station is set up to transport the passengers from the airport to the city center, not inter-city travel. Air France is right to co…
That's not fully correct. CDG and ORY have integrated (or close enough) high speed rail stations that serve other large cities, although that's probably not a great bet.
Most importantly, however, the law being discussed doesn't ban connecting flights. So a NYC -> Le Mans (say) would be allowed to fly through CDG, even though Le Mans is at around one hour by high-speed rail.
However, as there would be less traffic on these routes, I do expect some of them to be more expensive or even dropped altogether.
There's also a provision for "zero carbon" flights which would be allowed to operate on short distances.
The actual law (in French): https://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/dyn/15/textes/l15b3875_pr...
Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights
#289Semi-related: Do you think we’ll ever see a substantial reduction of pre-flight times? Why can’t we go through check-in and board directly, after an immediate security check? (Needless to say, this requires a brand new type of airport)
Some airports are in a good position to implement this already: Singapore airport has security checks right at the gate so you go through them and wait a short time in the seating area. When the plane is available, boarding happens immediately. What’s missing here is that the check-in desk is still way before this point.
Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
I had jobs where I had to visit clients in Uk, France, Germany and Italy. It was often plan kinda last minute. I’m French and was living in Paris at the time. Of course, for all abroad stuff beside london ( Eurostar ), the plane was preferred. But for national travel, only one city was too far to reach with a early morning train ride. All other major cities are reachable by a 2 to 4h train ride ( city center to city…
AFAIK the French rail system is set up so that Paris-X is a good connection for most X, but travel between city pairs that don't contain Paris is much more difficult... because you have to travel via Paris.
That's correct. But as others have noted, Paris is the "center" for most anything. There's very little demand for travel between any pair of two (major) cities other than Paris.
I should look this up for details, but I seem to remember that there's a train route running parallel to the southern border that was abandoned for lack of demand. And there are some major cities there (Marseille, Montpellier, Toulouse) which aren't all that far apart.