Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Scientists who say the lab-leak hypothesis for SARS-CoV-2 shouldn't be ruled out

technologyreview.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

651–660 of 662 posts

Re: Scientists who say the lab-leak hypothesis for SARS-CoV-2 shouldn't be ruled out

#651

Post by natch »

dang wrote: post #591
natch wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes green account, whatever you say.

You have repeatedly been an asshole in this thread. That's seriously not cool, regardless of how wrong other commenters are or you feel they are. Attacking users for being new is particularly bad. Do we want HN to be a smug, insular community or welcoming to newcomers? Obviously the latter. Please don't poison it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Sorry! I'll reexamine myself on the comments in this thread. I suppose I was kind of triggered by certain aspects, which may not be a good excuse. And I realize this is only part of it, but I definitely don't want to attack someone for being new.

Re: Scientists who say the lab-leak hypothesis for SARS-CoV-2 shouldn't be ruled out

#652

Post by BurningFrog »

bertjk wrote: post #504
Stevvo wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The CCP's modus operandi is self preservation through suppression of information. To those perpetrating the cover up what actually happened is irrelevant. The CCP is never transparent in matters that could make them look bad. From their perspective allowing an open international investigation would make them appear guilty regardless of the results because it would be unprecedented.

While I agree with you, I'm thinking that this is a response common to sensitive government institutions in general. If this lab leak happened in the US, would we suddenly invite CCP (or Russian/N.Korean/Iranian) agents into Fort Detrick to conduct their "investigations"? Which country would actually allow such a thing? Consider for a moment the propaganda value of being able to say, "we visited their labs and witnes…

My impression is that a thorough investigation is the normal thing for any major epidemic.

Re: Scientists who say the lab-leak hypothesis for SARS-CoV-2 shouldn't be ruled out

#653

Post by dang »

rebelos wrote: post #250
jeduehr wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why didn't they do the same for the SARS-CoV-1 leaks that happened in Beijing over a decade ago, then?

That's a terrible counterargument full of logical holes coming from someone who's supposedly a "PhD in virology". But you're also a green account that's so rabidly and suspiciously coming to China's defense throughout these comments that I literally assign no credence whatsoever to anything you've said. Several other scientists here have already eviscerated the arguments in your r/science post as well. I don't know w…

You can't break the site guidelines like this regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. We ban accounts that do it, so please don't do it again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Scientists who say the lab-leak hypothesis for SARS-CoV-2 shouldn't be ruled out

#654

Post by 99_00 »

xadhominemx wrote: post #565
effie wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reparations.

Whether the virus jumped to humans because someone handled the wrong bat or because some junior lab tech didn’t wash their hands shouldn’t really matter as far as reparations go

Yes. The lab leak hypothesis is tightly intertwined with the idea that China is not acting on good faith with the global community.

The CCP prohibited the virus's genetic sequence from being published. After a lab published it, it was shut down.

>On 11 January, Edward C. Holmes contacted Zhang for permission to publish the virus's genome. Zhang granted permission, and Holmes published the genome on virological.org that day.[1][3] The Chinese government had prohibited labs from publishing information about the new coronavirus, though Zhang later said he did not know about the prohibition.[3] The next day, the Shanghai Health Commission ordered Zhang's laboratory to close temporarily for "rectification".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Yongzhen#COVID-19_pand...

Re: Scientists who say the lab-leak hypothesis for SARS-CoV-2 shouldn't be ruled out

#655

Post by kgwxd »

mylons wrote: post #96
kgwxd wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Researchers should be discussing it. Until conclusive evidence is found, the only reason to post it on social media is to add fuel to the conspiracy fire, a fire that's inspiring people to kill people that couldn't possibly have anything to do with the origin of the virus.

maybe Facebook/Twitter/Youtube/Other multi-billion dollar entities should censor their platforms and stop inciting violence algorithmically? why do I have to self censor because I'm smart enough to consider this with a beginner's mind, and not a bigot's?

Same reason you don't post links on how to build a bomb to twitter. Post it on demolition professional forums, cool. Talk about it with you demolition expert friends, cool. Show your mentally unstable neighbor how to make one with kitchen supplies, not cool.

Re: Scientists who say the lab-leak hypothesis for SARS-CoV-2 shouldn't be ruled out

#656

Post by natch »

jeduehr wrote: post #355
natch wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not how a standard of proof works. I’m more interested in knowing how you benefit by coming to China’s defense here. I’ll read your arguments. I mean, I did read the first one and it was a staggeringly ill-conceived straw man.

Hi I'm not "coming to China's defense" here. I am no fan of the Chinese government I literally find them horrifically oppressive and a place I would /never/ want to live. I am no fan of China. I also anticipated this exact criticism and wrote a whole response to it. See here (#4): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vRbACWf90iBC35xNOwlI5bWcUq0...

Hi again jeduehr,

I want to apologize for some of my attitude in my comments to you here. Some of what I said I regret. Some of what I said was probably incorrect, and a lot of it was rude. Other parts, I still believe I would stand by, but I have to admit I haven't yet worked my way fully through your document, and it was poor form of me to give you that much grief especially given that fact, and, whether I agree with you or not, my way of expressing disagreement could have been less bad. Thank you for all your contributions on this.

While I do have my doubts reading some of your responses (which do not always seem to address concerns head on, especially responses to questions about lab leaks of natural viruses, which I've seen you respond to with something about engineered viruses, which wasn't the question), I believe you may be sincere, and I understand the value of extending the benefit of the doubt. I hope this discussion doesn't color your experience in a bad way.

I'll say one thing about China… it will surprise you (general "you") and defy your assumptions. Jaw-dropping moments are a daily occurrence. Of course we could say the same thing about most countries though.

Re: Scientists who say the lab-leak hypothesis for SARS-CoV-2 shouldn't be ruled out

#657

Post by tikiman163 »

loveistheanswer wrote: post #23

Judging by the comments in this thread, it seems a lot of people are still unaware that: 1. Gain of function research primarily uses samples collected from nature, and seeks to stimulate their evolution in as natural a way as possible to learn how viruses evolve in nature. If such viruses were to escape the lab, they would appear "natural" 2. It's not xenophobic for people from the US to suggest the possibility of a…

Gain of function research still uses genetically tagged samples. They insert minor inactive sequences who's purpose is solely for identifying when there's been a lab leak. These samples are not Engineered, but still identifiable using DNA/RNA sequencing.

Re: Scientists who say the lab-leak hypothesis for SARS-CoV-2 shouldn't be ruled out

#658

Post by d10r »

anonymousisme wrote: post #260
Bukhmanizer wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal feelings are that all 3 are possible, but approximately 0.0001% of people will actually consider the likelihood of each one, but rather, most will choose whichever one is most convenient and comfortable to believe in. Of course as an Asian person, whatever people believe in will have a direct impact on me. I remember after 9/11, the amount of awful things that were said and done to the Sikh population in…

As a white American in Beijing during the 9/11 attacks, I experienced lots of not-so-surprising behavior from my Chinese hosts. Many Chinese felt that America deserved what they got. Tensions were still high from the "Hainan Island Incident" only a few months earlier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident

As long as we stick to the concept of nation, we likely have to live with such issues. This is how group identity works, sometimes to your advantage, sometimes to your disadvantage.

Re: Scientists who say the lab-leak hypothesis for SARS-CoV-2 shouldn't be ruled out

#659

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

vagrantJin wrote: post #635
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should also blame the CCP for screwing up containment. Chinese culture is still deeply corrupt in ways that prevent honest and open discussion of safety issues. Honest and open discussion of safety issues should be table stakes for facilities like that in Wuhan. The rest of the world should be pressuring China to not operate these sorts of high-risk enterprises.

Heh? Who is we? Who is pressuring the US to do anything? DPRC is a sovereign state and can do as they damn well please just like the US. Get off your high horse.

Countries pressure other countries to do or not do stuff all the time, no?

Re: Scientists who say the lab-leak hypothesis for SARS-CoV-2 shouldn't be ruled out

#660

Post by vagrantJin »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #659
vagrantJin wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh? Who is we? Who is pressuring the US to do anything? DPRC is a sovereign state and can do as they damn well please just like the US. Get off your high horse.

Countries pressure other countries to do or not do stuff all the time, no?

No. They don't. I think my question was objectively straight forward too. who pressures the US to do anything?

So either you're trolling me and pretending geopolitical hierachy doesn't exist or you may think my question is stupid. Either way...

Post reply on HN