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Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

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Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#111

Post by h0l0cube »

dimal wrote: post #80
h0l0cube wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument makes more sense when you realise that Valium/Diazepam is basically a muscle relaxant. Edit: Source here, happy to hear from another domain expert refuting this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAOnSbDSaOw&list=PL848F2368C...

That's not really true. They act on GABA, which is the main inhibitory neurotransmitter throughout the central nervous system. So one of the effects is muscle relaxation, but that's only part of their effect.

Maybe it's not strictly true, but got this from Robert Sapolsky (Stanford neurobiology professor):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAOnSbDSaOw&list=PL848F2368C...

His opinion, or the best understandings on this, might have changed though.

From the YT transcript:

> Here's somebody taking Valium for anxiety, and here's somebody taking Valium to relax their muscles. What's up with that? It's the exact same thing. And it is a very James-Lange moment. What's part of anxiety about? It's monitoring the level of tension in your body. It's getting feedback from muscle tone.

He seems to be suggesting that the mode of action for Valium to reduce anxiety is that of reducing muscle tone. Not an expert, so I can't argue about it.

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#112

Post by didibus »

Something seems contractictory to me with this. It's trying to say your thoughts don't affect it, yet it describes a scenario where only rational cognitive concepts cause the fight or flight response.

How does the "survival brain" know that Covid-19 is scary, dangerous and to be feared? How does it know how dangerous it is to gauge the response?

Similarly, how does it know the meeting at work is dangerous if you're late too it? That it's important for you to be there on time?

Etc.

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#113

Post by [deleted] »

osullip wrote: post #104
burlesona wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really have any advice, but what I can say is it’s not really about distracting myself or avoiding thoughts, it’s more like changing how I think about things. For example, when I get some random aches and pains, it worries me a little. But in the past I would fixate on things, try to treat them, see a doctor etc. After a certain amount of grappling with my own mortality, I kind of realized that sometimes my b…

I read Marcus Aurelius, Meditations. Written around 2000, it is surprising how many of his verses are relevant today. These are translations of the original, so have picked up some contemporary interpretation. "If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment." "The happiness of your life depends upon t…

[deleted]

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#115

Post by darkerside »

defterGoose wrote: post #84
monkeydreams wrote: post #71

It was only when I was heavily medicated for depression and anxiety that I realised the physical symptoms of anxiety. Whenever I was expecting a negative outcome, or when I was surprised, my body would give me a jolt of pain along my vagus nerve. Literally any negative event would cause me pain, and it was this pain that my brain was seeking to avoid. My current medication does not remove this pain altogether, though…

Out of curiosity, do you mind sharing what medication you're on? I feel like i have a strange vagus nerve dysfunction as well.

I've had a similar issue, and PPIs and H2 blockers have helped

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#116

Post by runarberg »

didibus wrote: post #112

Something seems contractictory to me with this. It's trying to say your thoughts don't affect it, yet it describes a scenario where only rational cognitive concepts cause the fight or flight response. How does the "survival brain" know that Covid-19 is scary, dangerous and to be feared? How does it know how dangerous it is to gauge the response? Similarly, how does it know the meeting at work is dangerous if you're l…

I feel like statements like these do a disservice to the science behind them. The “fight of flight” is meant as a simplification of automatic behavior changes (which might involve different chemistry in the brain which increases alertness; and in evolutionary terms are beneficial to your survival and procreation). But it is a gross oversimplification. There is little evidence that the systems involved are a direct fight or flight response system. They are certainly involved in fight or flight but that is not by any means the only time they activate.

This article makes a passing mention of the term defensive response. I like that term a lot better as it catches things like potential embarrassment and failures as well.

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#117

Post by kumarvvr »

Is the body different from the mind?

Every experience of ours as a human, is rooted in the mind.

The author seems to confuse involuntary action with conscious thought.

"We" may not perceive the signals that drive the beating of the heart, but it is still driven by the mind.

Hindu yogic practices, especially those of Hatha Yoga [0] make it possible for one to feel even those involuntary processes.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatha_yoga

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#118

Post by osacial »

Zelphyr wrote: post #95
johnsmith4739 wrote: post #26

Who in their right mind would take their psychological advice from a fiction writer?!? First, no, anxiety is not in your body. Fear, just like any other emotion is in your brain. You might get physiological responses in the form of chemicals in your body. That is an effect, not a cause. Second, neocortex is not "thinking brain," its role is to manage social interactions. Cognition is a small part of that. Third, mind…

> mindfulness is the opposite of any therapy I can think of. It is an ego-depletion technique proven to be detrimental to people suffering from anxiety and depression. This is simply not true. Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) are two evidence-based, heavily researched forms of therapy that are intimately connected with mindfulness. Second, I encourage you to cite t…

>One is to simply allow it to happen or even try to make the panic worse. Paradoxically, that has been shown to ease the panic attack.

Nope. Not working for me. Though, I might have stronger fight-or-flight reaction than other people. For example, I can't watch beheadings(but I could do them by myself and I am very sure about that). If I force myself to continue watching, then my mind just shuts my brain off and I lose consciousness.

Similarly I can't watch needle, when nurse is injecting it into my vein. When I am not watching and have my attention fixed on something else - I feel perfectly fine, and even can make myself not to notice anything. So, MBSR and ACT is completely shite to me and I would be really pissed off if someone would have suggested that I should try them.

I think, that johnsmith4739, who mentioned techniques has a point, that this article is basically a crap and has no medical value whatsoever. I think, I start to realize, what op is meaning by ego-depletion technique, as this is exactly what makes me anxious, when everything becomes unreal and where I lose control - that is the thing that makes me most anxious. So, somehow NOTHING that you have written is making sense to me in dealing with my anxiety. Do you actually have some medical background, or have read too much and are here to prove your "expertise" based on what you have read? Which is wrong place to do.

EDIT: I had not received any help from doctors on my anxiety issues - most of the issues I was complaining about are now gone and I do not need help in dealing with my other anxiety issues - because "fixing" them(with medications?) will rob me of other things, that I enjoy and where anxiety is just part of how my brain works. I have noticed, that I get really anxious if I am not in control. If I am in control - I feel perfectly fine - in fact I feel more than perfectly fine in such circumstances, where I am in control of everything that affects me and understanding about this relation has come after trying to deal and failing with all the offered techniques. So, I've wasted my time on experiments and failed, so it is time for me to draw the line, cut losses and decide on what is working and I am irritated on touching anything again, that I've tried and that had no effect on me.

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#119

Post by alisonkisk »

gccs wrote: post #44
scorxn wrote: post #36

I was almost 30 when I had my first ever panic attack. I was alone and convinced it was a heart attack, called 911, and felt fine by the time the ambulance reached the hospital. Embarrassed, I was ready to brush it off, but instead saw a therapist for the first time. She took out a stopwatch and had me breathe through a narrow straw. Within seconds, my face and limbs went completely numb; I couldn't move, and was ama…

That is a very interesting event. Its like she knew exactly what was going to happen to you. The stopwatch and everything.

Of course the therapist knew. It would be horrible healthcare to do that to someone without a reason.

It is also unethical to do it to with a reason, without explaining the risks first.

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#120

Post by BobbyJo »

burlesona wrote: post #6

I noticed as young adult that I didn’t really worry or consciously stress, but my body had somewhat predictable reactions to situations that I would realize, in hindsight, were highly stressful. Those physical reactions sucked, and as they got worse over time, it really concerned me. At some point I was encouraged to go to CBT, which I did, but honestly it made things worse. I became hyper aware of how anxious I was…

I have an extremely similar arc with regard to stress and anxiety. I've found exercise helped, but purely because it made my body better able to manage the physical symptoms. In talking things out with my therapist I eventually came to the conclusion that ignoring problems can actually be a very effective solution, despite what everyone tells you.
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