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French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

reuters.com

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Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#131

Post by hyakosm »

thiht wrote: post #100
bertil wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there direct flights though?

I did Rennes-Toulouse multiple times (it was actually the example I was going to give in this thread). It's 10 hours by train, 2 hours by plane. So as long as there are no direct trains, if flying was to be banned, there would be no short way to do Rennes-Toulouse anymore.

Interior flights will be banned only in case of a train alternative inferior to 2.30h.

> Nous avons choisi [le seuil en train de] 2h30 car 4 heures, ça vient assécher des territoires souvent enclavés comme le grand Massif central... Ce serait inique sur le plan de l'équité des territoires" [1]

> We have chosen 2.30h instead of 4h, because of enclaved territories like Massif Central. It would have been inequal for the territories equity. [approximately translated]

[1] https://www.francetvinfo.fr/monde/environnement/convention-c...

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#132

Post by ahartmetz »

nraynaud wrote: post #24
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #4

There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. However, if you're already arriving or leaving on a long distance flight, the whole overhead of getting to/from/through the airport disappears and those 1.5 hours start making a difference. I think forcing companies to advertise more honest flight durations and prices could make a huge difference. If the airline tells you that…

remember that now you're supposed to be in the train 20min in advance, and connecting across stations in Paris with heavy luggage and kids is a shit show (and a non-starter for foreigners, they just call a taxi, and as the most visited country in the world, this detail should matter) But I hope it increases the frequency of bullet trains to and from CDG TGV, this train station never had a useful train time for my air…

> now you're supposed to be in the train 20min in advance

Oh, why is that? Never heard of it or had to do it anywhere. My last train trip starting from France was about 15 years ago, though. And most trains have several stops so you couldn't possibly be so early except at the initial departure, not without slowing down the whole trip unacceptably.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#133

Post by closeparen »

Symbiote wrote: post #67
EdwinLarkin wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Railway systems usually dont play well with capitalism as there is very little competition (given that infrastructure and the train operator is usually a state owned company). Aviation is simply much more efficient.

> Aviation is simply much more efficient. Efficient, how? It uses much more energy, makes more noise and creates more pollution. The speed has very little to do with the funding model. Flights were still faster in the 1970s when many state-owned airlines operated, and trains are little different when private companies run them (see: several European countries).

Tying up capital equipment and personnel for much less time to serve the same journey. Consider San Francisco to Chicago, a route I have done both ways. The flight is 5 hours, the train ride 50 hours. A 737 is more expensive than the California Zephyr trainset, but not by 10x.

I'm not sure what noise has to do with efficiency - I doubt that the energy expended on vibrating the air is physically or economically significant - but it is worth noting that trains are loud. Particularly because regulations written in blood require that they blow their horns three times at every level crossing at all hours.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#134

Post by tonyedgecombe »

wut42 wrote: post #104

While the reason is honorable, I can't help but think this is an attack on poor/middle class people. Traveling by train in France is quite expensive, and very annoying some times (I live in a lost country-side, and if I want to travel to my parents, it's a three to four train ride, taking about 8 to 10 hours). Ok, plane wouldn't help in most cases either, but the train offering got a lot gutted over the years and it'…

I never really bought this argument. Poor people aren't taking regular flights or driving SUV's. Climate change is a problem caused by the consumption habits of the wealthy, not the poor.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#135

Post by lentil_soup »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #118
ipqk wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just put a large tax if the short, domestic flight isn't a connecting flight. Short, domestic flight by itself: 100€ Short, domestic flight part of an international itinerary: +30€ It'll mostly work itself out.

What would stop people from doing split tickets?

If you split it you'd pay more, no?

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#136

Post by Jtsummers »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #118
ipqk wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just put a large tax if the short, domestic flight isn't a connecting flight. Short, domestic flight by itself: 100€ Short, domestic flight part of an international itinerary: +30€ It'll mostly work itself out.

What would stop people from doing split tickets?

The above idea specifically discourages split tickets (buying one ticket for each leg). You'd end up with an extra 70€ fee if you buy the two tickets separately. So unless buying a multi-leg tickets adds more than 70€ to the total price it's not worth the trouble.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#137

Post by saddlerustle »

williamdclt wrote: post #93
Analemma_ wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would, but the last time France tried imposing a carbon tax there were riots in the streets. This might be the best we can hope for.

It was a carbon tax on gas that was going to affect the lower classes disproportionately. I don't think we'd see an uprising for a carbon tax on intra-national flights, which are much more of a business travel mode

People choose to fly rather than take the train because flying is usually cheaper. This ban also impacts poor people more than rich people.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#138

Post by stordoff »

nobodyandproud wrote: post #124
xfitm3 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a disability changing modes of transportation mid-trip is an extreme hardship. I suffered an injury and needed a wheelchair for about a year while I still had to travel for work three times. You have no idea how hard basic things can be until you're incapable of doing them on your own.

I had reduced mobility for months, many years ago. Even though I was already aware of just how difficult it would be to get around, living through it gave a shocking amount of perspective. Some of the disability accommodations (disability parking) were pure bullshit. Elevators and ramps were godsends. A large, standing shower without steps and room for a stool were musts. A taste of what’s to come, when I get older.…

I'm not sure what you mean about parking. I have a disability, and personally, parking is the most important adaptation.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#139

Post by ip26 »

bjeds wrote: post #35

I wonder what the unintended consequences are with this measure. Here are some: 1) I can imagine weird situations where a multi-leg flight could be broken up by this ban, especially if you are traveling from the middle of nowhere (connected to a smaller airport in France) and you are flying to another middle of nowhere place (connected by _another_ smaller airport in France). Instead of having one flight, you now hav…

I found taking TGV to Paris CDG a pretty good experience.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#140

Post by saddlerustle »

roamerz wrote: post #57

I wonder if this was actually the best way to accomplish this. From some of the other comments it seems like the reason the flights are less expensive is because of airline subsidies. Maybe the lawmakers didn’t have the powers to affect the subsidies but had the power to enact a law? I also wonder if this will have the side effect of clogging the trains routes with too many people. It’s been my experience that when l…

In France trains are subsidised way more than flights.
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