Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 361 posts

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#111

Post by EdwinLarkin »

Thiez wrote: post #105
EdwinLarkin wrote: post #52

Essentially all this is is a tax on quality of life. Quality of life will decrease for rich nations for nothing as all the environmental gains will be offset by emerging economies. China will continue to build more and its population will also continue to consume more.

Those living in the rich nations can hardly blame the people in emerging economies for trying to achieve a similar standard of living (well, not without being huge hypocrites). And yes, large countries like China will have a large impact. But that is going to happen regardless of whether the rich nations make a change or not. So why wouldn't we try to reduce our own impact? What alternative do you suggest? Do nothing…

Dont try to force altruism on me.I'd rather retain my standards of living.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#113

Post by benja123 »

multiplegeorges wrote: post #92
benja123 wrote: post #34

Overall I am for this, but I do wonder if most short domestic flights are business trips. I can definitely imagine a situation where if I was taking frequent day trips for work and that extra 30 minutes to an hour is the difference between me seeing me kid before they go to sleep or not choosing to take the flights.

To me, the best solution to this kind of scenario is video calling, which is currently being normalized and will be readily accepted going forward.

Same, but pre COVID at least lots of people were expected to travel even if a video chat could be equally effective.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#114

Post by ajross »

pochamago wrote: post #107
xalava wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is pretty exceptional in its lack of rails. There is also a Seattle-San Diego. Enjoyable as a tourist, but probably not suited for business purposes except in the last portions. In France some high speed trains go now directly to airports (CDG,LYO). So it is becoming possible to chain a plane and a train in a few scenarios.

It's not really that the US lacks rails, we have the largest rail network in the world. The problem for passenger rail here is population density. France is three and a half times denser, and Japan is nearly 10x. I think they would also struggle a bit more to justify rail costs if they were as spread out as the US.

> we have the largest rail network in the world

For freight[1]. Putative high speed rail might go to the same places but generally can't share the same tracks with 30mph long haul trains. And the big gap is the plumbing of rail and transit into the urban cores, which in most US cities is highly decayed and in many of the newer metropolises was never built at all.

[1] Which is unsurprising, because we have the biggest per-capita need for transcontinental land freight transport in the world. The US has been perfectly fine at building out infrastructure it thinks it needs, it's just been making poor choices about what it "needs".

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#115

Post by Scoundreller »

gsnedders wrote: post #47
Denvercoder9 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kind of an intrinsic problem with transport that needs infrastructure along the whole route (i.e. trains and cars). You need a minimum amount of travel along a route for it to be worth it to construct and maintain that infrastructure. The system naturally evolves to a hub-and-spoke model. Planes just need infrastructure at both ends, so it's a lot easier to create a point-to-point model.

It's far from just the infrastructure, if you're looking at HSR; Bordeaux to Lyon as an aviation route is mostly served by E190's, each seating 100 people, whereas a TGV Réseau seats 377 (which I believe is the lowest capacity of any current TGV). Clearly the train can have the advantage of intermediate stops, but you're starting off with much higher capacity to fill. And sure, you could build a very short train, but…

I'm surprised they're running jets instead of turboprops, but maybe fuel efficiency is too high in my mind.

Only Chalair runs a small handful of ATRs.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#116

Post by xfitm3 »

ajross wrote: post #42
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #4

There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. However, if you're already arriving or leaving on a long distance flight, the whole overhead of getting to/from/through the airport disappears and those 1.5 hours start making a difference. I think forcing companies to advertise more honest flight durations and prices could make a huge difference. If the airline tells you that…

> There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. In France. In nations like the US (outside the DC-to-Boston corridor anyway) without a well-designed and -maintained rail infastructure, 1-2 hour flights are routine and not really replaceable with other options. Infrastructure investment pays off for decades and decades, and Europe has done really well here. > However, if y…

If you have a disability changing modes of transportation mid-trip is an extreme hardship. I suffered an injury and needed a wheelchair for about a year while I still had to travel for work three times.

You have no idea how hard basic things can be until you're incapable of doing them on your own.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#118

Post by frosted-flakes »

ipqk wrote: post #58
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #4

There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. However, if you're already arriving or leaving on a long distance flight, the whole overhead of getting to/from/through the airport disappears and those 1.5 hours start making a difference. I think forcing companies to advertise more honest flight durations and prices could make a huge difference. If the airline tells you that…

Just put a large tax if the short, domestic flight isn't a connecting flight. Short, domestic flight by itself: 100€ Short, domestic flight part of an international itinerary: +30€ It'll mostly work itself out.

What would stop people from doing split tickets?

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#119

Post by Thiez »

EdwinLarkin wrote: post #111
Thiez wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those living in the rich nations can hardly blame the people in emerging economies for trying to achieve a similar standard of living (well, not without being huge hypocrites). And yes, large countries like China will have a large impact. But that is going to happen regardless of whether the rich nations make a change or not. So why wouldn't we try to reduce our own impact? What alternative do you suggest? Do nothing…

Dont try to force altruism on me.I'd rather retain my standards of living.

In the end preserving the environment helps everyone. We all have to live here on this earth, as will our descendants (for the foreseeable future at least). Perhaps you don't have many years left, and have no children? Otherwise your attitude seems rather shortsighted.

It's a good thing most rich countries are democracies where the majority actually can force altruism on others, no matter how selfish they are.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#120

Post by conradfr »

wut42 wrote: post #104

While the reason is honorable, I can't help but think this is an attack on poor/middle class people. Traveling by train in France is quite expensive, and very annoying some times (I live in a lost country-side, and if I want to travel to my parents, it's a three to four train ride, taking about 8 to 10 hours). Ok, plane wouldn't help in most cases either, but the train offering got a lot gutted over the years and it'…

Poor people will take the Macron coaches instead of the disbanded slower trains.

Great progress ...

Post reply on HN