Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: I feel my career is at a dead end. Any advice on what could I do?

news.ycombinator.com

41–50 of 149 posts

Re: Ask HN: I feel my career is at a dead end. Any advice on what could I do?

#41

Come to Google! No forced management track so you can code for as long as you want, no ageism (colleague just turned 60; I'm 40 myself), will probably let you support a family, great WLB :)

I would love to work at google. I am an older coder and founder but I doubt highly I could pass the tests to even get an interview. :(

Give it a try :) I interviewed twice and was hired twice, at 30 and at 39. Don't believe the naysayers, the interviews are actually super reasonable! It's algorithmic, but not leetcode; it feels like "let's figure out this problem together in the whiteboard, colleague".

Re: Ask HN: I feel my career is at a dead end. Any advice on what could I do?

#42
There are companies out there who value the experience of senior software engineers (and I mean real seniority, not the job title that you update to senior after 3 years in the field).

Such companies will have a career ladder up to Principal or Distinguished engineer. You will have to share your knowledge, of course, but without having to give up coding and do people management, if you don't want that.

I'm 39, happy infrastructure engineer, individual contributor. I tried being team lead for some years, but didn't really enjoy people management. That's okay.

Charity Majors wrote some great posts about that:

- https://charity.wtf/2019/09/08/reasons-not-to-be-a-manager/

- https://charity.wtf/2019/11/23/questionable-advice-after-bei...

- https://charity.wtf/2020/09/01/the-official-authorized-list-...

- https://charity.wtf/2020/09/06/if-management-isnt-a-promotio...

Re: Ask HN: I feel my career is at a dead end. Any advice on what could I do?

#43
post #38
post #23

I feel like we are seeing a post like this every week. Contrary to sentiment here, writing CRUD apps for FANG is indeed not the dream and a path of fulfillment.

It is a way to a stack of money. Which may not give you fulfillment but it does you options.

of course it's a way and it pays well. but once you've become debt free and have some savings in the bank, it loses it's appeal exponentially. this leads to burn out, lack of motivation, people questioning their career choices/decisions

Re: Ask HN: I feel my career is at a dead end. Any advice on what could I do?

#44
Your company pushes you to a managerial role because your experience allows you to deliver more value in that than you would as an individual contributor. You're are essentially a force multiplier for more junior ICs by providing the strategy, direction and mentorship to them. You'll find this career trajectory to be fairly normal.

Being a coder makes you a cost centre, whereas being a PM gives you some degree of charge over a budget, which means you can more directly quantify your $ contribution to the business. The upper end of your salary expectations will therefore likely be higher in the PM role. It sounds like you don't want to do PM, but sort of realise this.

There are a handful of exceptions to this, where you become such a domain expert that people will write blank cheques for you do still do the technical stuff, but you will find overwhelmingly that your experience level is one where companies see your best value in providing you the responsibility to guide the high level and leave the detail up to juniors below you.

Of course, you may choose that you want to become that greybeard IC, and that's totally ok, but expect it to put some degree of limit on your salary's upward trajectory. I don't think that they will kick you out just because you're old, but they certainly see you as being able to deliver more value in some degree of management. As an IC, you simply can't provide that much more value back to the company compared to juniors in similar roles, because your true value lies in being leverage to multiple juniors through your experience and mentorship. If you're paid well enough, satisfied with having that for the rest of your working life, then it's an increasingly stress-free way to pay the bills because your mastery of the role will mean it's easy to deliver.

It's worth noting, that some of the other ways around this (starting your own company, freelancing, consultancy) will inherently include a degree of management of some description. Whether it's the right balance for you is again something only you can gauge.

So if you truly want to stay as an IC, how do you do that? Talk to your supervisors about your career goals and highlight that. Have that discussion, explain to them that you're happy to take on a mentorship role but still want to be in the weeds at the end of the day, and hopefully your company is flexible enough to work with you there.

Context: I'm also 35 but in a mech engineer career, and in exactly the same career stage as you. I now have 3 people reporting to me, but more informally play a strategy/mentorship/leadership role to a team of about 10 more junior engineers.

I have thought a lot through this, and my team has multiple of those old greybeards who stayed in the technical expert IC role. I wrestled with the same issue (I used to love doing technical design, FEA, CAD, etc., and can still probably run rings around the juniors in it) but ultimately realised that I want the career growth and that I can deliver substantially more value by moving into a leadership position.

Re: Ask HN: I feel my career is at a dead end. Any advice on what could I do?

#45
post #16

The problem is that, at same time I feel that coding can't be a lifetime career: Is this actually true?? I’m concerned because I read that you’re making decisions based on this assumption and I’m not necessarily true this assumption is inline with reality. I’m 36, and have been moving away from coding for the last couple years too, I’m deeply concerned because engineering seems to earn more across the board than proj…

> I’m deeply concerned because engineering seems to earn more across the board than project management.

Where I live (Sydney, Australia), front-end contractors earn (in AUD) $800/day, back-end $900/day and project managers $1000/day. There’s a range, of course, but that’s the gist of it.

Re: Ask HN: I feel my career is at a dead end. Any advice on what could I do?

#46
post #37

It's curious that modern life has brought this sort of angst. I mean, long ago you would work in farming or as a blacksmith all your life and that would be it. With such constant change nowadays, you can't help but feel that you are always on a tightrope. Late capitalism has made everyone expendable; you have to prove yourself constantly. Also, inequality takes away some of your freedom. Sometimes I wish I could take…

I'm not entirely buying it.

You might be a blacksmith, but eventually you'll become the master of the shop, take on some apprentices under you, and take on more high-level responsibilities. You might still get to work iron periodically (especially if it's a complex, artisan piece) but more of your day will be consumed with balancing books, managing contracts of supplies, client liason, etc.

I don't think that's really evolved a great deal compared to the OP's sitaution.

Re: Ask HN: I feel my career is at a dead end. Any advice on what could I do?

#47
Like others have pointed out, a career in tech doesn't necessarily follow a linear path.

I landed my highest profile job so far as a fresh graduate, but I quickly found out it was a miserable place to be in. I have made a healthy work environment my top priority ever since. In my opinion you should chase what makes you happy, which may or may not be what makes some random HN users happy.

Re: Ask HN: I feel my career is at a dead end. Any advice on what could I do?

#48

Come to Google! No forced management track so you can code for as long as you want, no ageism (colleague just turned 60; I'm 40 myself), will probably let you support a family, great WLB :)

fine print: must leetcode for a year before entering. results are not guaranteed. along with the fact that you'll feel like an insignificant cog in a gargantuan machine

Re: Ask HN: I feel my career is at a dead end. Any advice on what could I do?

#49
I am 39, been programming for about 10 years, and I have never managed anybody. Mentored numerous, always had an "open door" to sit with a junior or even not-so-junior dev to hash out/debug/conceptually consult on something. This is part by explicit choice, part by just not being as "emotionally" invested in the tech decisions as people who desired management. I always volunteer to take on or clean up parts of the code or stack that no one else wants to touch as long as my other work duties would be reasonably adjusted to accommodate for this, so that everyone else's job could be more fun and productive. I have always been valued by both management and for being this kind of "informal player", and never felt my job was at risk, or that I got stale. You don't need to be working on the latest tools/lang's/stacks: just writing and reading code constantly. Tech challenges that keep your skills sharp lurk everywhere.

Re: Ask HN: I feel my career is at a dead end. Any advice on what could I do?

#50
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m glad you have time for this! I’m 37 and haven’t had time for personal tech projects in years; family, home ownership and life have all gotten in the way. I’m on the management side (senior director equivalent), but I do make more than any of my engineers and I probably spend 50% less time working. I do a mix of people management, architecture design and executive communication, but it’s 95% stuff that falls into…

Are you openly bragging about making more money while working half as much as the people you are supposed to be responsible for? I would be embarrassed to write that.

I think a lot of people are in a similar position but not as open and honest about it. I feel refreshed reading it, rather than that it’s something to be embarrassed about. Edit: better english
Post reply on HN