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The Economic Consequences of Increasing Sleep Among the Urban Poor

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Re: The Economic Consequences of Increasing Sleep Among the Urban Poor

#61

Post by artem247 »

rorykoehler wrote: post #47
buu700 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could also be a function of their jobs, which weren't specified in the abstract. While insufficient sleep might cause physical discomfort and contribute to long-term health problems, if their job weren't highly physically or mentally demanding, I suspect that most people could get through the day with negligible detriment to their short-term economic output after having a cup of coffee.

Poor people aren't doing brain work but instead do manual labor etc. It definitely should be a core part of any study to highlight this.

In my country poor people are: doctors and nurses who work at state hospitals(most of them), teachers at state schools, university professors(both state and private ones), engineers who work at such government facilities as nuclear plants and the like, scientists in general and also some government officials. All them make roughly 10-20% percent of what moderately skillful software engineer could make, in the same city and country. Just for the reference.

Re: The Economic Consequences of Increasing Sleep Among the Urban Poor

#62

Post by DecayingOrganic »

buu700 wrote: post #24
Scoundreller wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sentence before that is: "Contrary to expert predictions and a large body of sleep research". Was this study better science that disproved the existing body? Or poorer science? Or is there something problematic about sleep in Chennai? Or special about the people in Chennai? The full paper states: > An enormous body of research, mostly conducted in sleep labs in rich countries, documents severe negative impacts of…

It could also be a function of their jobs, which weren't specified in the abstract. While insufficient sleep might cause physical discomfort and contribute to long-term health problems, if their job weren't highly physically or mentally demanding, I suspect that most people could get through the day with negligible detriment to their short-term economic output after having a cup of coffee.

They employed 452 adults for a one-month data-entry job, which the authors say it's "a relatively cognitively-demanding task intended to be sensitive to sleep deprivation."

As a side note, the study also says that short afternoon naps increased productivity.

Re: The Economic Consequences of Increasing Sleep Among the Urban Poor

#63

Post by barry-cotter »

deviantfero wrote: post #54
Consultant32452 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daughter's school starts at 7am, so she has to be up by 5:45am. It's stupid.

In my country it's the same, I think it is done that way because most people jobs start at 8 or 9, there's no school bus system, only private transport for kids going to school, so this schedule gives a chance for parents to drop off their kids at school and make it to work afterwards. Personally I hated it at the time, because getting up early is not my thing, but now I appreciate the time I got to talk with my pare…

> The educational effects of school start times Delaying secondary school start times can be a cost-effective policy to improve students’ grades and test scores

> The combination of changing sleep patterns in adolescence and early school start times leaves secondary school classrooms filled with sleep-deprived students. Evidence is growing that having adolescents start school later in the morning improves grades and emotional well-being, and even reduces car accidents. Opponents cite costly adjustments to bussing schedules and decreased time after school for jobs, sports, or other activities as reasons to retain the status quo. While changing school start times is not a costless policy, it is one of the easiest to implement and least expensive ways of improving academic achievement

https://wol.iza.org/uploads/articles/181/pdfs/educational-ef....

Re: The Economic Consequences of Increasing Sleep Among the Urban Poor

#64

Post by [deleted] »

buu700 wrote: post #24
Scoundreller wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sentence before that is: "Contrary to expert predictions and a large body of sleep research". Was this study better science that disproved the existing body? Or poorer science? Or is there something problematic about sleep in Chennai? Or special about the people in Chennai? The full paper states: > An enormous body of research, mostly conducted in sleep labs in rich countries, documents severe negative impacts of…

It could also be a function of their jobs, which weren't specified in the abstract. While insufficient sleep might cause physical discomfort and contribute to long-term health problems, if their job weren't highly physically or mentally demanding, I suspect that most people could get through the day with negligible detriment to their short-term economic output after having a cup of coffee.

[deleted]

Re: The Economic Consequences of Increasing Sleep Among the Urban Poor

#65

Post by prawn »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #51
Consultant32452 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daughter's school starts at 7am, so she has to be up by 5:45am. It's stupid.

Ah. That's indeed early. In France kindergarten and primary school starts at 8:30 and ends at 16:30. Mid and high school at 8 or 9, never earlier. This is very early for children and teens, really not physiological.

In Australia, at least where I am, from ages 5-17 school is generally 8:45 to 15:15.

Re: The Economic Consequences of Increasing Sleep Among the Urban Poor

#66

Post by [deleted] »

schappim wrote: post #3

Those in the study were low-income adults in Chennai, India who sleep only 5.5 hours per night on average despite spending 8 hours in bed. The key takeaway was: > increased nighttime sleep had no detectable effects on cognition, productivity, decision-making, or well-being, and led to small decreases in labor supply. I find the result surprising. When I get under 6 hours I see a clear drop off in performance.

[deleted]

Re: The Economic Consequences of Increasing Sleep Among the Urban Poor

#67

Post by shash »

Scoundreller wrote: post #9

Here's the full study pdf: https://economics.mit.edu/files/16994

Yes, the full study explains a lot. I don’t think they can come to the conclusion that “increased nighttime sleep had no detectable effects on cognition, productivity, decision-making, or well-being” based on the data they’ve shown.

1. Their interventions increased sleep time only by increasing time in bed, not sleep efficiency. In other words, without interventions, if participants were sleeping for 5.5 hours with 8 hours in bed, after their interventions, they slept 6 hours after 8.5 hours in bed.

2. This means that the night sleep they measured post-intervention was still extremely disturbed. I doubt if it was restorative in any way.

3. The nap time at work WAS probably of much higher quality because the environment was much better.

4. A word on the interventions; I cannot figure out why they didn’t give out mosquito nets or repellant given that they correctly identified mosquitoes as a major problem (reported by 70% of participants). The best way of getting a good night’s sleep with mosquitoes around is with nets and the second best is some kind of repellant.

5. I think the real conclusion should be that sleep quality matters. Not just amount of sleep, especially if it’s disturbed.

I feel like the conclusions are slightly post facto. As in, they set out to test their interventions and didn’t end up proving them so they switched to nap time.

Re: The Economic Consequences of Increasing Sleep Among the Urban Poor

#69

Post by davnn »

artem247 wrote: post #61
rorykoehler wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor people aren't doing brain work but instead do manual labor etc. It definitely should be a core part of any study to highlight this.

In my country poor people are: doctors and nurses who work at state hospitals(most of them), teachers at state schools, university professors(both state and private ones), engineers who work at such government facilities as nuclear plants and the like, scientists in general and also some government officials. All them make roughly 10-20% percent of what moderately skillful software engineer could make, in the same ci…

Sounds pretty unrealistic, what country do you live in?

Re: The Economic Consequences of Increasing Sleep Among the Urban Poor

#70

Post by _pastel »

TekMol wrote: post #16

short afternoon naps at the workplace improved an overall index of outcomes by 0.12 standard deviations, with significant increases in productivity, psychological well-being, and cognition Is it possible to learn that? To me it seems impossible to do a "short nap". Even when I feel low energy, I don't feel like I could just lay down and sleep during the day.

Yes! It just takes practice.

I started out finding a comfortable position and relaxing with a timer set for 15 minutes. After years of practice, I now hit REM almost immediately and wake up feeling rested without a timer in 15-20 minutes.

It's easier for your body to learn if you have a specific place (e.g. a coach), time (e.g. immediately after lunch), and position (I cross my ankles and steeple my hands on my chest). These make it feel qualitatively different from night sleeping and easier to wake up naturally.

You also want to pay attention to sound and light. I use noise-cancelling headphones at work and earplugs + white noise at home. I choose a well-lit area, preferably with natural lighting, and then cover my eyes with a cloth or sleep mask. It's easier to feel refreshed when you uncover your eyes to bright sunshine, rather than waking up in a fully dark room.

Honestly, the main challenge is feeling self-conscious when napping at work. Originally I would lock myself in a shower room or go out to my car, but I'm finally self-confident enough to sleep on a public coach.

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