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Brave disables Chromium FLoC features

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Re: Brave disables Chromium FLoC features

#31

Post by dialtone »

dataflow wrote: post #21
dialtone wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't use FLoC ID for fingerprinting, it changes continuously.

Interesting, didn't know that. In that case then how does it identify a cohort in a useful manner? Surely websites will need to temporally tie together the values to be able to target ads?

The cohort semantic meaning is stable, although not disclosed an ML system would learn its correlation to a given goal.

Cohort membership changes pretty frequently instead. So the system may put all people that browse mostly golf sites together in cohort 12345 that only the algorithm knows it's about golf sites, people enter and leave that cohort on a daily basis and you can only be a member of a single cohort at a time.

Re: Brave disables Chromium FLoC features

#32

Post by dataflow »

dialtone wrote: post #31
dataflow wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, didn't know that. In that case then how does it identify a cohort in a useful manner? Surely websites will need to temporally tie together the values to be able to target ads?

The cohort semantic meaning is stable, although not disclosed an ML system would learn its correlation to a given goal. Cohort membership changes pretty frequently instead. So the system may put all people that browse mostly golf sites together in cohort 12345 that only the algorithm knows it's about golf sites, people enter and leave that cohort on a daily basis and you can only be a member of a single cohort at a t…

Why would the cohort membership change frequently? Isn't it based on your browsing habits? I don't think my habits change frequently—do most people's?

Also, even if I take for granted that everyone's cohort changes daily, how does that imply anonymity? Like say my habit is that I check emails a ton on Monday, go on YouTube on Saturday, read the news on Sunday, etc... so my habits are changing daily, okay, but not weekly, right? Or maybe I do them in a different order on another week, but I'm not going to develop 1000 different habits across 1000 days, right? Shouldn't some kind of frequency analysis provide fairly consistent results?

Re: Brave disables Chromium FLoC features

#34

Post by judge2020 »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #22
londons_explore wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I must have ads, I'd prefer not be tracked by hundreds of untrustworthy companies, and I'd also prefer not see irrelevant ads... This therefore seems like the best bad option...

You don't have to have ads at all. The best option is an adblocker, and a non-Chrome-based browser.

I'd also like to support websites I visit, though, if I don't have the money to directly donate to them and if I am going to purchase a product anyways (think visiting an amazon product page, leaving it for a day, then clicking an ad for it to give x% to the website). Many websites today wouldn't exist without ads since a lot of their traffic is people who don't go out of their way to donate to websites they find useful. If I can do this without giving up privacy I'll turn off my ad blocker (and I already do for websites I find useful).

Re: Brave disables Chromium FLoC features

#35

Post by londons_explore »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #22
londons_explore wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I must have ads, I'd prefer not be tracked by hundreds of untrustworthy companies, and I'd also prefer not see irrelevant ads... This therefore seems like the best bad option...

You don't have to have ads at all. The best option is an adblocker, and a non-Chrome-based browser.

Using an adblocker is like stealing candy from the store...

They can handle some theft, but if literally everyone stole their candy, the store would close down and nobody can have candy.

Re: Brave disables Chromium FLoC features

#37

Post by Daho0n »

mikl wrote: post #23

Good to see Brave sticking to their privacy guns. FLoC is a brazen attempt for Big Ad (aka. Google and its ilk) to keep their spying-on-users gravy train going, now that GDPR and similar laws are making their old methods illegal (without consent). No one wants to consent to being spied on, so FLoC is circumnavigating the GDPR consent requirements, letting them spy on all Chrome-users without consent.

Only in a world of Google dominance could Brave be seen as the good guy.

Re: Brave disables Chromium FLoC features

#38

Post by HeckFeck »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #22
londons_explore wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I must have ads, I'd prefer not be tracked by hundreds of untrustworthy companies, and I'd also prefer not see irrelevant ads... This therefore seems like the best bad option...

You don't have to have ads at all. The best option is an adblocker, and a non-Chrome-based browser.

Preach. I don't consent to tracking. I don't want my browser helping anyone track me in any way. I don't want to be pressured and manipulated into buying things I don't need. Advertising is not moral and I owe nothing to anyone who tries to manipulate me.

Websites can move to more efficient and lighter methods of delivery to cover the absence of advertising revenue. Anyone skilled who works in the advertising industry is freed to offer his skills to better human endeavours. Everyone wins.

Re: Brave disables Chromium FLoC features

#39

Post by goalieca »

londons_explore wrote: post #35
JoshTriplett wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to have ads at all. The best option is an adblocker, and a non-Chrome-based browser.

Using an adblocker is like stealing candy from the store... They can handle some theft, but if literally everyone stole their candy, the store would close down and nobody can have candy.

It’s been said many times, but if the business model is advertising then you’re the product.. not the quality journalism or content. They’ll focus on generating content to increase engagement instead of perfecting what you think it is they are supposed to deliver.

Perhaps it is time for an advertising model to die out as the default.

Re: Brave disables Chromium FLoC features

#40

Post by judge2020 »

mikl wrote: post #23

Good to see Brave sticking to their privacy guns. FLoC is a brazen attempt for Big Ad (aka. Google and its ilk) to keep their spying-on-users gravy train going, now that GDPR and similar laws are making their old methods illegal (without consent). No one wants to consent to being spied on, so FLoC is circumnavigating the GDPR consent requirements, letting them spy on all Chrome-users without consent.

Except with FLOC you can watch your network connection in/out and see that, instead of a persistent identifier being used to track you, you only send your interest categories. FLOC's intent is to keep their money making operation afloat, but this time without direct web browsing activity tracking of users.
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