Why cats won’t punish a stranger who harms you • Hacker News Board

Re: Why cats won’t punish a stranger who harms you

#71

Post by JumpCrisscross » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

zelon88 wrote: post #15

The answer to the title question was never scientifically answered. They described the experiment, the results, and then lead into a conclusion that didn't match the science. Then they finally reverted to anecdotal evidence to support the original claim which the scientific evidence does not support.

> title question was never scientifically answered

The title changes changes “who refuse to help their owners” in the article to “who harms you,” which is a big difference. The study [1] never uses the word “harm” with respect to cats; it does to reference a different study using infants. That specificity with the word should communicate what they tested for.

Anecdotally, I have had a cat and a dog. Both of them reacted, immediately and quite viciously, to people who raised their voice to me. (Growl and barking and hissing.)

[1] http://animalbehaviorandcognition.org/uploads/journals/30/AB...

Re: Why cats won’t punish a stranger who harms you

#72

Post by clairity » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

at_a_remove wrote: post #40

I had a cat who would become upset if my mother and I were having a fight. She would immediately begin "yelling" at my mother and once scratched her. The scratching was especially funny given the situation: we had a rug that kept getting moved, my mother was convinced that I kept moving it, when I had not. She kept arguing this, the cat came over, yelled, eventually scratched her when that didn't work, then annoyed w…

my cat absolutely believes she can talk. she yells at me when she wants to eat, asks for reassurance and protection when she’s feeling uncertain (like during supervised outdoor time), seeks forgiveness when she’s feeling guilty, and scolds me when i’m off-schedule (especially around treats and playtime).

Re: Why cats won’t punish a stranger who harms you

#73

Post by leetcrew » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

CraneWorm wrote: post #26

leetcrew wrote: post #19

there's also the obvious fact that a cat isn't a credible threat to a human. there's no point in "punishing" a creature that weighs 15-25 times as much as you do. would you try to "punish" an elephant if you were unarmed? conversely, any creature that a cat can credibly deter is not a lethal threat to a human. I imagine a large dog understands, at least on some level, that it can actually win a fight against a human.…

> it would be interesting to study how/if cats defend other cats against roughly cat-sized threats fiercely: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EEa6jZv-Khc

that is an interesting video, thanks for sharing. as much as I want to view it as the cat heroically defending the child, I have to wonder if that was the real motivation. the video seems to take place in the front yard a house that the cat presumably lives in. I wonder if the reaction was more defensive (of the child) or territorial. on the one hand, it seems the cat doesn't react (not in the frame, so hard to say) until the dog actually bites the child. on the other hand, the cat disengages at almost exactly the point where the dog clears the edge of the driveway. then again, who knows if the cat recognizes human customs well enough to align the border of its territory with the property line?

Re: Why cats won’t punish a stranger who harms you

#74

Post by BalinKing » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

jdking wrote: post #51

K0balt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually up to a weight for weight match or even more in the case of lighter humans, a single dog is trivial to defeat in combat unless it is properly trained to never fully engage and only to tear and dash. If a person reacts aggressively and not trying to escape, a dog is easily defeated. Just have to protect your throat and keep facing the dog. Allow it to grab you on a limb , preferably a hand or arm, and you hav…

This is the weirdest comment I’ve ever read on HN!

Never before have I heard "reach into an animal and grab its lungs from the inside" as a defense strategy. That's a new one.

Re: Why cats won’t punish a stranger who harms you

#75

Post by baby » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:11 PM UTC

zelon88 wrote: post #15

The answer to the title question was never scientifically answered. They described the experiment, the results, and then lead into a conclusion that didn't match the science. Then they finally reverted to anecdotal evidence to support the original claim which the scientific evidence does not support.

Yeah that was not a great article. They even mention that cats were domesticated more recently than dog but don’t say how recent.

Re: Why cats won’t punish a stranger who harms you

#76

Post by fcatus » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

zelon88 wrote: post #15

The answer to the title question was never scientifically answered. They described the experiment, the results, and then lead into a conclusion that didn't match the science. Then they finally reverted to anecdotal evidence to support the original claim which the scientific evidence does not support.

This bbc article is not reporting what the study actually found. They changed the question of the original article so that they can get a click-baity title. That's so annoying...

Re: Why cats won’t punish a stranger who harms you

#77

Post by jjtheblunt » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

Datapoint : one of our cats was born feral and will definitely intercede in any bickering.

Re: Why cats won’t punish a stranger who harms you

#78

Post by phnofive » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

beloch wrote: post #34

A more accurate title: Experiment shows that cats are less aware of helpful behaviour between humans than dogs.

This is closer, although it’s possible the cats didn’t pity an owner as readily as a dog, or that the cats perceived the owner was faking the disability to open the box.

Disclosure: I think I have observed the latter behavior on many occasions.

Re: Why cats won’t punish a stranger who harms you

#79

Post by jjtheblunt » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #45

My take is this. Dogs are pack animals who defend threats to the group. Cats are colony animals who respond to threats to the zone. I'm fairly sure both consider their owners to be one of their own species.

or of their own pack, at least it seems here

Re: Why cats won’t punish a stranger who harms you

#80

Post by jjtheblunt » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

pestatije wrote: post #3

They don't bring the stick back either

I played fetch with my male cat with very few breaks for an entire sunday back in 2005, which i remember because we were watching NFL games for a considerable part of the time.