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Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

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Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#951

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the honest story, congrats on pulling yourself out of debt and into (quoting you) privileged life. I see the HN crowd as rather monotonic, and thanks to stories like yours, it shows me wrong, and that’s for the best.

"monotonous" I think you meant :). Though the identical etymology makes this a bit silly.

Indeed!:p

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#952

HN is very consistently anti-union. My question is this: Where did you get information about unions? Because people keep mentioning their "bad reputation" and then start listing off a bunch of "facts" that read like they're bullets straight out of one of those anti-union videos during onboard at several major employers (Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc). So anti-union people exactly where does your information come from?…

People think I am being conspiratorial when I say this, but I think the majority of antiunion rhetoric online is astroturing

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#953
post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also stopped selling fresh meat through a butcher window all across the US when the butchers unionized.

If in their judgment, it became not in their best interests economically for them to continue doing it, what else would have them do?

That’s why you need strong labor laws as a balance.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#954
post #616

"Here's exactly how these people should have voted" – legions of San Francisco software engineers making $550K/yr convinced that they know everything about the lives of warehouse workers in Bessemer, Alabama making $15/hr.

Yes. Incredible arrogance and clearly insinuates that the people of Bessemer are unable to think for themselves. 71% said no. That is a very clear majority. I think we need to trust the people on the front line with the discernment to make their own decisions. I've been around a lot of people without much formal education who were much wiser than most. And please don't yell about Amazon misrepresenting things. I susp…

Just “misrepresenting things”? Amazon did everything they could to crush the effort.

“The retail workers union said Amazon was trying to surveil employees in Bessemer and even changed a traffic signal to prevent organizers from approaching warehouse workers as they left the site. Last month, the New York attorney general said in a lawsuit that Amazon had retaliated against employees who tried to protest its pandemic safety measures as inadequate.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/16/technology/amazon-unions-...

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#955

Here's an interesting and surprising analysis from a labor organizer and writer (you'll need to follow the back-and-forth of the comments a bit): https://twitter.com/yeselson/status/1380363511709196288 The short version is: while the Bessemer campaign was a good thing, the vote (according to this person --- everything I'm writing here is according to Yeselson and subject to errors in my understanding) was not. To wit…

It seems to me like losing 70/30 is a sign that they picked the wrong battle.

Yes, that's what he's saying. You campaign until you're sure it's going to go the other way, 30/70, and then you call for a vote.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#956

HN is very consistently anti-union. My question is this: Where did you get information about unions? Because people keep mentioning their "bad reputation" and then start listing off a bunch of "facts" that read like they're bullets straight out of one of those anti-union videos during onboard at several major employers (Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc). So anti-union people exactly where does your information come from?…

I formed my opinion of unions from watching the news. Union bosses drawing exorbitant salaries while trying to negotiate wage increases completely divorced from reality and current market conditions.

People like to shit all over Margaret Thatcher and her policies but they forget that it was the actions of the unions (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discontent) under a Labour government that got her elected in the first place.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#957

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA needs better education so that people understand economics and labor markets, so they wont calling paid positions indentured servitude.

We need better education so that people stop voting against their own self-interest, in union elections and generally.

I'm wondering what sort of education exactly would prepare someone to decide if they should vote for a union or not. I'm assuming the would-be union would have made its case beforehand and Amazon hasnt been idle with their PR. So again, what education helps in making the decision?

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#958

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm stupid, but why does unemployment cause violent crime?

I think being really broke greatly hinders your ability to think rationally. I never committed any violent crimes, but I know throughout most of 2016 I was really really broke (about $15,000 credit card debt, 3 months of unpaid rent, a lawsuit from my landlord for the back rent). In the process I debated reaching out to one of those payday loan places, despite the fact that I knew they were scams. My desperate brain…

I've found that being poor actually sharpens the mind. It reminds you that if you don't eat, you'll die; clarifies that most laws are just rules crafted by the ultra rich to keep them in power; reminds you that many many people have way more than they need, and can afford to have some it go missing without longterm damage.

It's very rational to choose crime over starvation or exposure, especially when our legal framework (US) is morally bankrupt. Why not turn to crime when crime really isn't such a bad thing compared to the other shit going on.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#959

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lidl in Germany has a minimum starting salary of 12,50€ per hour. With other benefits like 30 days of vacation. https://jobs.lidl.de/lidl-als-arbeitgeber/mindesteinstiegslo...

so...that's about 15 dollars. Do you consider them to be slaves too?

30 days of vacation... With that many their effective hourly wage goes up 10-15%. How many vacation days do you think amazon workers get? The parent post might consider amazon warehouse workers to be slaves, but that is likely more due to the harsh working conditions rather than their pay.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#960

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, it came from working for a massive union (government, not US) for many years. The downsides are real: hard to fire bad performers, your merits don't matter at all (the guy doing the bare minimum job description gets the same raises as you), wayyy too much focus on seniority (for promotions, vacation selection, etc), and overall just too many rules (for example, "unlimited vacation" works great with my cur…

I think that the value of a lot of unions is obscured by how well-established they are. Historically, unions are a solution to a specific problem - the employer can (for one reason or another) get away with jerking employees around and treating them badly. But if you form a union, and the employer is forced to stop some of their the worst behaviors, and then it stays that way for a generation or two, it feels like th…

I think a lot of the obscuring is intentionally done by corporations who seem to be run by sociopaths. It seems likely that corporations actively make workers feel like a union would be useless.
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