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Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

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Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#781

Post by smiley1437 »

wutbrodo wrote: post #701
tombert wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think being really broke greatly hinders your ability to think rationally. I never committed any violent crimes, but I know throughout most of 2016 I was really really broke (about $15,000 credit card debt, 3 months of unpaid rent, a lawsuit from my landlord for the back rent). In the process I debated reaching out to one of those payday loan places, despite the fact that I knew they were scams. My desperate brain…

> In the process I debated reaching out to one of those payday loan places, despite the fact that I knew they were scams. Because they're not, the idea that they are is paternalistic bullshit from the kind of people who get their news from John Oliver. Debt can be dangerous, and payday loans are commensurately more so due to their high rates. But debt is a _tool_, and just like middle- and upper-income folks can use…

I'm sorry but in Ontario, prior to January 1, 2017, the charge was $21 per $100 advanced, an effective interest rate of 14,299% (not a typo)

That's not using debt as a 'tool', that is weaponizing it against those can't fend for themselves.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#782

Post by jjk166 »

duckfang wrote: post #254
parliament32 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, it came from working for a massive union (government, not US) for many years. The downsides are real: hard to fire bad performers, your merits don't matter at all (the guy doing the bare minimum job description gets the same raises as you), wayyy too much focus on seniority (for promotions, vacation selection, etc), and overall just too many rules (for example, "unlimited vacation" works great with my cur…

> hard to fire bad performers In the jobs that I do, "bad performance" is super subjective and very hard to measure. It's also the common canard to use from the managerial class to get rid of someone they don't like. > your merits don't matter at all They don't either in the non-union corporate world either. They pay as little as they can get away with. They'll assign as much work as you can possibly do, and then pil…

> They don't either in the non-union corporate world either. They pay as little as they can get away with. They'll assign as much work as you can possibly do, and then pile on more, and set unreasonable demands. The moment you surmount them, there's more work.... But here's your COLI for the year.

This has not been my experience. Every employer I've worked for has offered me reasonable raises before I had to ask, and consistently sought my input to estimate how much time and effort tasks will take, usually adding buffer onto what I suggest.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#783

Post by pseudalopex »

Varriount wrote: post #540
parliament32 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, it came from working for a massive union (government, not US) for many years. The downsides are real: hard to fire bad performers, your merits don't matter at all (the guy doing the bare minimum job description gets the same raises as you), wayyy too much focus on seniority (for promotions, vacation selection, etc), and overall just too many rules (for example, "unlimited vacation" works great with my cur…

Aren't things like time tracking, etc. union-specific though?

Not at all.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#784

Post by hdctambien »

subsubzero wrote: post #722
yardie wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unemployment itself doesn't cause crime, but unemployment and a weak social safety net will definitely cause crime. I've lived in Western Europe countries with absurdly high unemployment rates, to this American, >10%, 25% youth, and I never felt unsafe, mostly. You got a stipend, subsidized housing, and job training. But in the US, unemployment, desperation, and easy access to firearms can be a big problem. BTW, I'm…

>BTW, I'm still shocked by the casualness of people who threaten to shoot me. Or like to show they are armed in an attempt to intimidate me. What? Where in the US do you live? I've lived in the US my entire life and never, not once has anyone ever threatened to shoot me. Thats a felony in itself and I am really surprised by that.

It's used as a joke in a lot of circles. "My daughter's old enough to date, I better clean my gun"

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#785

Post by chmod600 »

ekianjo wrote: post #764
chmod600 wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's terribly difficult to emigrate from the US to the EU. Aside from plane fare, what's holding someone in the US? And if it's just plane fare, there are probably a lot of places you can make it with a bus ticket that have better prospects without needing to go to Europe.

> Aside from plane fare, what's holding someone in the US? Top of mind why someone would NOT want to work in "Europe": - lower salaries - much higher tax rate - stuff in general is more expensive (higher VAT + everything that's imported)

I was referring to lower income people that a union would supposedly help.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#786

Post by regextegrity »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #777
regextegrity wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What?? I don't mean "formal, timed bathroom breaks". I don't even think that exists in the real world. I mean they don't have enough leeway in their incentive system, to the point where workers have to pee in bottles out of fear of missing quotas and losing their job

You're universalizing something that's by all accounts a very rare occurrence, which I think is again part of the disconnect. If union organizers go around saying "we have to pee in bottles because they don't give us restroom breaks!", that's not going to be very persuasive to the vast majority of Amazon workers who take breaks to use the provided restrooms.

The peeing in bottles is just one of many symptoms of their terrible working conditions https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/feb/05/amazon-wo...

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#787

Post by dTal »

aarongray wrote: post #127

Speaking as someone who lives adjacent to Bessemer but who does not work at Amazon, you need to understand that Bessemer is a dying city, a slum. These were the best paying jobs that many of these workers had had in their entire lives, it is no wonder that a majority of them decided not to bite the hand that was feeding them.

Perhaps they read the cautionary tale of "Why there is no moloch13":

https://everything2.com/title/Why+there+is+no+moloch13

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#788

Post by francilien »

flavius29663 wrote: post #246
fartcannon wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a tragic way to frame it. The USA (and all the world governments) need to take care of it's poor people better so they don't have to choose indentured servitude over poverty. Edit: Added the bit about all the world governments

$15 an hour is more than you can get in almost any place in Europe or the world for unskilled labor, what are you talking about?

Lidl in Germany has a minimum starting salary of 12,50€ per hour. With other benefits like 30 days of vacation.

https://jobs.lidl.de/lidl-als-arbeitgeber/mindesteinstiegslo...

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#789

Post by [deleted] »

tombert wrote: post #664
FearlessNebula wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm stupid, but why does unemployment cause violent crime?

I think being really broke greatly hinders your ability to think rationally. I never committed any violent crimes, but I know throughout most of 2016 I was really really broke (about $15,000 credit card debt, 3 months of unpaid rent, a lawsuit from my landlord for the back rent). In the process I debated reaching out to one of those payday loan places, despite the fact that I knew they were scams. My desperate brain…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#790

Post by yardie »

subsubzero wrote: post #722
yardie wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unemployment itself doesn't cause crime, but unemployment and a weak social safety net will definitely cause crime. I've lived in Western Europe countries with absurdly high unemployment rates, to this American, >10%, 25% youth, and I never felt unsafe, mostly. You got a stipend, subsidized housing, and job training. But in the US, unemployment, desperation, and easy access to firearms can be a big problem. BTW, I'm…

>BTW, I'm still shocked by the casualness of people who threaten to shoot me. Or like to show they are armed in an attempt to intimidate me. What? Where in the US do you live? I've lived in the US my entire life and never, not once has anyone ever threatened to shoot me. Thats a felony in itself and I am really surprised by that.

If you commute long enough through places of high poverty you'll have some stories. I'd get a gun pulled on me for driving. I'd also have friends and colleagues brag to me about pulling guns on other drivers. I'd tell them they were crazy but in their mind it's a completely valid reaction.
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