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Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

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Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#761

Post by ameister14 »

subsubzero wrote: post #722
yardie wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unemployment itself doesn't cause crime, but unemployment and a weak social safety net will definitely cause crime. I've lived in Western Europe countries with absurdly high unemployment rates, to this American, >10%, 25% youth, and I never felt unsafe, mostly. You got a stipend, subsidized housing, and job training. But in the US, unemployment, desperation, and easy access to firearms can be a big problem. BTW, I'm…

>BTW, I'm still shocked by the casualness of people who threaten to shoot me. Or like to show they are armed in an attempt to intimidate me. What? Where in the US do you live? I've lived in the US my entire life and never, not once has anyone ever threatened to shoot me. Thats a felony in itself and I am really surprised by that.

I had a guy threaten to shoot me in Kentucky once when I was working with him on the Ohio River - more of a 'I have a rifle in my truck' than a 'pointing a gun at you' kind of a threat though.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#762

Post by athms »

toby wrote: post #376
objclxt wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I can tell, a lot of people in tech are anti blue collar union, but mistakenly assume that blue-collar unions are all unions. For example, just in the replies to your comment people are saying they dislike unions because they protect the incompetent, stifle progression, give preferential treatment purely on seniority, etc. But then go look at Hollywood, with the Screen Actors Guild, the Writers Guild, the P…

Guilds are a little different from unions in practice. They set minimum standards but there's no group negotiation based on seniority or anything like that. Studios are free to pay some hot rising star 100x as much as the guy who has been a character actor for 30 years as long as he's making the minimum and getting his breaks and meals and stuff. It's also a challenge to get into a guild, SAG has minimum requirements…

>SAG has minimum requirements for having already performed.

Other unions do the same, such as longshoremen. You can work next to unionized longshoremen, doing the same type of job, yet not be part of the union because it strictly controls who can be a member in order to keep membership low and compensation high.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#763

Post by zenron »

zwkrt wrote: post #639
FearlessNebula wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm stupid, but why does unemployment cause violent crime?

You’re not stupid you’ve just never had to deal with a real actual problem in your life. Unemployment is a cause of or certainly concomitant with having very high stress and a very poor outlook on the future. In a town like Bessemer the thought process is something like “I don’t have a job, I’m not going to get one, I have no money, and this situation is not going to change.” And it’s not just you thinking this, you…

I think you may be projecting here. There are millionaires living in Bessemer. Bessemer is right next to down town Birmingham, Hoover, Homewood, Fultondale, Gardendale, Chelsea and a not too long drive from Tuscaloosa. There is so much money here for most industries. The cost of living in the GBA isn’t much at all especially north on I65. Also, while it is true Bessemer is more or less impoverished in the city it has some really beautiful outskirts. People who live there absolutely do not have to work there.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#764

Post by ekianjo »

chmod600 wrote: post #685
tw04 wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of jobs in western Europe that will pay similar and won't force you to pee in a bottle or your pants. That's ignoring the whole healthcare situation... which I think you're leaving out of the equation. 30 seconds of searching indicates the average grocery store clerk in the UK makes 8.80GPB/hr. Add on healthcare and they're coming out far ahead of an amazon warehouse worker. https://www.payscale.com/…

I don't think it's terribly difficult to emigrate from the US to the EU. Aside from plane fare, what's holding someone in the US? And if it's just plane fare, there are probably a lot of places you can make it with a bus ticket that have better prospects without needing to go to Europe.

> Aside from plane fare, what's holding someone in the US?

Top of mind why someone would NOT want to work in "Europe": - lower salaries - much higher tax rate - stuff in general is more expensive (higher VAT + everything that's imported)

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#765

Post by BrandoElFollito »

mattlondon wrote: post #730
squidlogic wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a US native I’ve never had someone threaten to shoot me or show me they were armed to intimidate me. I’m not exactly living a sheltered life either. I have a few questions, sorry if this sounds like a lot I’m just really curious. What city are you in where this happens? What are you doing to provoke this kind of behavior? Why haven’t you moved away to somewhere safer?

In my experience it happens a fair bit at the long, long, long immigration lines at US air ports if you are not a US citizen. Guards fondling their gun holster and shouting at people for using a phone or sitting on the floor after queuing for 3 or 4 hours. Welcome to America. I guess you don't experience this if you are a US native. And also obviously it happens frequently in SF from the homeless people. That is prob…

I have traveled extensively to the US (I am French), probably 10+ times a year. The way people are "welcomed" to the US is horrible - I felt like this only in Russia.

Once the border officer asked me (or rather - barked at me) "why are you coming to the US?", to what I said "for business".

"For how long?" - to what I answered "for 3 days"

He then asks "why so short?" to what I answered "I swear if I could squeeze it to one day I would gladly come and go not to spend money in a country that is so welcoming" (it was a very long, tiring flight and I really wanted to go to the hotel, afer having queued up for 2 hours)

He told me that I should not reply like this, to what I said that this is the truth. We had a small staring contest and he let me go.

The other similar case in Russia was when the border guard was yelling at me for not having my passport number printed on my ticket (yes, I do not know either), to which I yelled back to kick me out of their country with a "never return" stamp because I am fed up enough to have a week-end ruined with tha travel. I showed him my hands together (as in "handcuff me") and he pushed me into Russia. The stay was great, people were great.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#767

Post by ekianjo »

quijoteuniv wrote: post #293
flavius29663 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$15 an hour is more than you can get in almost any place in Europe or the world for unskilled labor, what are you talking about?

While that might be right,You are not taking into account that in Europe you get free healthcare & education.

> free healthcare & education.

Not everywhere in Europe, and "free healthcare" is largely a myth. It's free until it's not. You need glasses? Out of your pocket, and it's super expensive. You need to stay in hospital? It's not going to be anywhere free. And they will kick you out as soon as they can as they are starving for beds and resources. Good luck with that.

Sure, you can always go to the emergencies to get free treatment, and wait 10 hours to see someone who is overworked to diagnose your issues.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#768

Post by mensetmanusman »

Lammy wrote: post #708
cat199 wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America's "Rust Belt" cities all tend to have one thing in common Not anti union, but these also had high union activity, which some explain as a cause of their 'rustification' as companies moved production elsewhere (like Alabama) to avoid.

Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Negro_Labor_Council https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Negro_Labor_Congress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Revolutionary_Black_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Revolutionary_Union_Move... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_of_Black_Trade_Union... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Brotherhood_of_Worker... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotherhoo…

HN should reformat wiki links to jump straight to the page title, since these long lists render identically before you open the thread.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#769

Post by tombert »

wutbrodo wrote: post #701
tombert wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think being really broke greatly hinders your ability to think rationally. I never committed any violent crimes, but I know throughout most of 2016 I was really really broke (about $15,000 credit card debt, 3 months of unpaid rent, a lawsuit from my landlord for the back rent). In the process I debated reaching out to one of those payday loan places, despite the fact that I knew they were scams. My desperate brain…

> In the process I debated reaching out to one of those payday loan places, despite the fact that I knew they were scams. Because they're not, the idea that they are is paternalistic bullshit from the kind of people who get their news from John Oliver. Debt can be dangerous, and payday loans are commensurately more so due to their high rates. But debt is a _tool_, and just like middle- and upper-income folks can use…

I guess I am one of those kind of people who get their news from John Oliver.

Maybe I was being a bit hyperbolic when I said "scam" since they usually do what they advertise. Let me rephrase: they have ridiculously high interest rates that can lead to difficult-to-escape debt, and they are predatory towards desperate people, hence why you usually see them in poorer neighborhoods.

Debt is absolutely a tool and I wasn't claiming otherwise, so when I said "scam", what I really meant was "the worst possible way to leverage debt".

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#770

Post by ekianjo »

foepys wrote: post #437
bhupy wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The warehouse workers get the same (extremely generous) healthcare as every other Amazon employee (due to ERISA). And even if they didn't, through the Affordable Care Act, someone at that income level can buy a "Gold" plan with low deductibles for $75/month. Obviously for Amazon workers, that's irrelevant. K-12 education is free, and once you factor in-state tuition and FAFSA, university is also basically free for an…

Do they get free university with an interest free loan of which they only have to pay 50% and only up to 10,000€ back? And 20+ days vacation days plus 6 weeks paid sick leave plus 18 months job guarantee in case of a longer healing process while being paid 60% of their last wage? Plus 1-2 years unemployment benefits, also at 60% of last wage? Plus 60% paid for up to a year in case of being on furlough during a pandem…

> Talking about Germany here by the way.

Talking about the wealthiest country in Europe. I'm glad you are not cherry picking your data when you expose facts.

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