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Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

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Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#661
post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on.. the workers don't even get bathroom breaks.

Isn't that a bit misleading? I don't have official bathroom breaks either, and I do just fine.

What? I don't mean scheduled bathroom breaks, I mean they aren't given enough leeway during the day to even use the bathroom. There are many reports of them peeing in bottles and shitting in plastic bags.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So let me get this straight: companies shouldn't be investing money into revitalizing impoverished areas? No, they should do so, just not be so exploitative about it (e.g. deliberately going into areas full of desperate people, for the reason of using that desperation to exert maximum control with minimum accountability).

So your issue is specifically with the mindset of the company, not the actions themselves? Why would a company ever do anything out of the goodness of their hearts? Shouldn't we just be looking at the result of them following market incentives?

So, I think I mostly agree with your stances here, but I take major issue with this:

> Why would a company ever do anything out of the goodness of their hearts?

Because a company is made of people. I won't fault a company for following market incentives, but questions like yours sometimes imply that a company shouldn't do anything out of the goodness of their heart. Then you get people saying stuff like the company's goal must be to maximize shareholder value and stuff, and getting angry when a company does something out of the goodness of their hearts, which I take issue with.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, you're not kidding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessemer,_Alabama#Economy "Crime increased following the rise in unemployment and social disruption from the decline of manufacturing industries in the area. As of 2019 Bessemer ranks first in terms of violent crimes for US cities with 25,000 or more people." Population has fallen from its peak in 1970 of 33k to 26k today. Thanks for the reference. EDIT: Also hom…

I'm stupid, but why does unemployment cause violent crime?

I think being really broke greatly hinders your ability to think rationally.

I never committed any violent crimes, but I know throughout most of 2016 I was really really broke (about $15,000 credit card debt, 3 months of unpaid rent, a lawsuit from my landlord for the back rent). In the process I debated reaching out to one of those payday loan places, despite the fact that I knew they were scams. My desperate brain was overriding my logical brain.

I can only assume I'm not unique in this fact; if it comes down to mugging someone or not eating for a week, I'm not 100% sure which option I would choose. I would like to think that I would never hurt someone, but since 2017 or so, I've had a pretty privileged life.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, you're not kidding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessemer,_Alabama#Economy "Crime increased following the rise in unemployment and social disruption from the decline of manufacturing industries in the area. As of 2019 Bessemer ranks first in terms of violent crimes for US cities with 25,000 or more people." Population has fallen from its peak in 1970 of 33k to 26k today. Thanks for the reference. EDIT: Also hom…

I'm stupid, but why does unemployment cause violent crime?

Among other things, unemployment is bad for your city's tax base.

Law enforcement can probably withstand some budget cuts before public safety suffers, and leaders probably cut other things first, but at some point it might have an effect.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#666
post #650
post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You conveniently chose one of the wealthiest countries with the highest wages. Here is a more realistic look at monthly min wages across the region. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_...

>You conveniently chose one of the wealthiest countries Did you know that the United States is the wealthiest country in the world?

> Did you know that the United States is the wealthiest country in the world?

In aggregate, sure; its somewhere between 5th-8th by per capita GDP, which is the more relevant comparison, depending on source.

But the UK isn’t even close to the US, or particularly near the top in Western Europe (which yas countries ahead of the US.)

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on.. the workers don't even get bathroom breaks.

But I think this is a clear example of an issue where pro-union rhetoric has diverged from the reality of the situation. Are there any workers who actually prefer formal, timed bathroom breaks over the "go whenever you want as long as you're meeting your productivity goals" model?

What?? I don't mean "formal, timed bathroom breaks". I don't even think that exists in the real world. I mean they don't have enough leeway in their incentive system, to the point where workers have to pee in bottles out of fear of missing quotas and losing their job

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No objection that most of EU is better than the US in these regards, but Amazon warehouse workers get some of the best healthcare insurance that I’ve ever seen in the US. Similar to what the top-level-commenter pointed out, I guarantee that the warehouse jobs in Bessemer provide among the best healthcare available in the town. The US as a whole is awful at providing healthcare, but healthcare is a particular area whe…

I'm an Amazon warehouse worker in North Carolina. As far as health insurance, I pay 100% of the first $1500, then 10% of the next $15,000 (so $3000 total), then 0% of anything over $16,500. I wouldn't call that astonishing, but it is the minimum $0 monthly premium plan. Also, I'm generally happy at work. I basically feel well paid and well treated.

Reply to the sibling comment comparing to insurance of MS SWE. While the absolute values are comparable, $1500 is quite a bit more of an inconvenience at a warehouser worker pay level than at a SWE salary level.

Given the physical nature of the work, I'd consider them more enlightened if they provided a lower deductible at the $0 premium level for every warehouse worker across the board. I'm really getting tired of places treating the long term mental and physical health of workers as an unpriced externality that's later paid for by society.

Also, thanks to motardo for the data point. (I will assume you're an actual warehouse worker.)

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, you're not kidding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessemer,_Alabama#Economy "Crime increased following the rise in unemployment and social disruption from the decline of manufacturing industries in the area. As of 2019 Bessemer ranks first in terms of violent crimes for US cities with 25,000 or more people." Population has fallen from its peak in 1970 of 33k to 26k today. Thanks for the reference. EDIT: Also hom…

I'm stupid, but why does unemployment cause violent crime?

Hungry people don't just quietly starve to death, especially if they have other people depending on them.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#670
post #396
post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon moving into these impovershed areas, becoming the majority employer, and having absolute influence over the local governance and electorate they themselves employ makes these places de facto a company town. Brilliant move, totally evil genius move, but brilliant.

So let me get this straight: companies shouldn't be investing money into revitalizing impoverished areas?

It's complicated. When you're the only game in town you enter an ethical gray area where the community is your hostage. Things seem alright now but what happens when the mines run dry?
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