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Monkey MindPong

neuralink.com

141–150 of 291 posts

Re: Monkey MindPong

#141
post #44
post #35

That was difficult to watch. While the technology is impressive, it is sickening to watch. The part where they can pair the phone via bluetooth made me want to vomit. It is obviously unnatural, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Something about seeing that animal, oblivious to what's happening, and that implant with the ability to directly record thoughts and/or remote control. The whole thing doesn't sit well wi…

Yeah, it's not that hard to imagine the next bit where there's a captive warehouse of monkeys solving CAPTCHAS for food or something. It's a depressing video to be sure.

Right now, this is being done with people from India, so ... I'm not sure if your dystopia vision is a step up or down on the civilisation ladder.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#142

Poor monkey. It should belong to the forest or other natural environment it was took from. I don't get it why there are still tests run on animals. The first what technology should bring is a replacement for every animal test subject.

we torture and kill so many more animals to eat meat and dairy, than we do to conduct science.

While I share your view, I think it's important to point out that this really isn't the best place to start if you want to reduce animal suffering.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#143
post #35

That was difficult to watch. While the technology is impressive, it is sickening to watch. The part where they can pair the phone via bluetooth made me want to vomit. It is obviously unnatural, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Something about seeing that animal, oblivious to what's happening, and that implant with the ability to directly record thoughts and/or remote control. The whole thing doesn't sit well wi…

I think it's 2 things:

1) The deliberately soothing British voice does not come off as soothing. It comes off as insidious, and threatening. This is in part influenced by our own cultural context with media like Black Mirror, but the effect is there nonetheless.

2) The comparison points to "pair with your iPhone" feel WILDLY misaligned with the rest of the message. The premise of Neuralink is that this is a world-changing cutting edge technology for the good of humanity. Then all of a sudden you have a situation where a living sentient being is paired to an iPhone like some sort of bluetooth speaker. It reeks of confused ethics.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#144
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said you’re not a vegan, so to be clear your okay with factory farms crushing pigs to death but minimally invasive surgery on monkeys so they can play pong is too far? I don’t care about your stance on animal consumption particularly, but don’t you find that a little hypocritical?

They crush pigs to death? What? Nothing would surprise me at this point, but I couldnt find a citation for that at first glance.

OP might be referring to pigs crushing each other to death because of overcrowding in badly-run farms and during transportation. Farmers don't throw pigs in trash compactors (and why would they? Non-compacted pigs is how they do earn their money.)

Re: Monkey MindPong

#145

As this evolves and inevitably becomes an internet connected communication device, how will it impact the labor market?

Data entry will probably be obliterated as you will just be able to insert rows into databases or spreadsheets in a few milliseconds rather than needing to type out entries from papers or receipts. There are already ML solutions to this but none are as perfect as a human brain that can correctly decode arbitrary formatting.

Keyboards and mice will be phased out very quickly since you can just thought type, so the computer accessories industry will dry up as well.

If the device allows you to write to limbs, you will probably also be able to write to motors. Expect a lot of specialized vehicle related jobs (excavators, forklifts, cranes) to become remote-first with skilled operators working inside call centers or at home. This is already happening but the presence of Neuralink means contracting companies don't have to pay for expensive joysticks, knobs, switchboards, etc.

Of course this doesn't consider the impact on the entire world changing overnight, which will probably upend modern capitalism for the first time in a century.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#146

I know I'm conforming to a stereotype by saying this, but I cant stop thinking about how this could be the premise of a Black Mirror Episode. I also think we should restrict such technology. Without restrictions we can play God, and I am in no way approving of doing anyhting similar to that. The part about pairing the monkeys NeuraLink Device "like you do with a speaker" made me laugh. Not becuase it's funny, but bec…

A lot of people are focusing on the Bluetooth aspect of this which seems to be the most inconsequential part of it. Of course you need to connect to the brain device remotely; what do you want, a USB port on top of your head? Or should we go back to PS/2 or parallel ports and everyone can hide a 2in thick wire in their ponytail?

If we want the brain to be an input device then we must treat it like an input device. That means interfacing with it with the most modern/common standards we have, which, for better or worse (mostly worse), is currently Bluetooth.

Do you also think it's weird that people can put on VR headsets to alter their sight, or put in AirPods to subvert their hearing? 'Cause it is, but I think we've all normalized it to the point that it feels like something we're allowed to do. I think the same will happen with Neuralink at quite a fast pace.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#147
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I initially thought GP was being overly hyperbolic, but after watching the video I can't say I fully disagree. It's not so much the animal studies aspect, but rather the fact that they used bluetooth via a mobile phone to connect to the monkey. That aspect of connecting via bluetooth from a phone is most conventionally used to interact with replaceable commodities such as wireless speakers/headphones, but here it's b…

I think you articulated it well. It trivializes life. Countless animals die horrifically for science, but much of it is ultimately in the pursuit of valuing human life. This is something different. This animal has been reduced to a device accessory.

After watching macro trends in U.S. politics and tech for a while, I've held (but not articulated much) a sense that power is shifting from federal government to private interests. Previously that would have meant corporate boards, but I think increasingly it's a small number of individuals (due to realpolitik).

The good thing about messy, human models of transactions and interaction is that it can take a long time and many different voices can be heard, allowing disuptes to occur and be resolved.

Many of these successful tech corporates work to eliminate the human discussion element, and replace it with digitized (and frequently proprietary, or at least gatekept) rules.

I think I've dealt with a few difficult dominant personality types in the past, and it would not surprise me at all to see them consider humans-as-pets as a desirable future. Match that with digitized 'asset ownership' and other non-repudiable mechanisms and there could be a very dystopian and authoritarian future in the mind of some of these people.

Now I'll make sure to sound like a complete nutter (as if I hadn't already) and mention that some of these individuals and companies are now so essential to the U.S., both domestically and internationally, that they are becoming untouchable.

Meanwhile our own tech industry is busy debating and trying to determine what the future of libre software will look like. It's a pivotal moment and I'm optimistic we'll figure it out to everyone's benefit, but there is a lot at stake.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#148
post #50

This seems to be very similar to the early 2000s demos at Brown University/Cyberkinetics[1]. In 2008 they demonstrated it in humans[2] after lots of work getting FDA approval. The core difference here (from my non-expert reading) seem to be electrodes are along a thread rather than on a chip. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJJPbpHoPWo for a video of the pong demo in humans. The motor cortex seems to have a clear…

IIRC the major challenges was brain plasticity itself. Brain signals changed over time and the device needed new calibration.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#149
I cannot imagine any future in which this is not terribly abused or otherwise going wrong.

People invading other people's minds, Borg-like clusters of minds outsmarting anyone who is not connected with others, forcing others to play along to stay competitive. Maybe entities that even never grew up as unaugmented, unconnected persons because they were already linked in young age - one mind with different bodies.

It is absurd to try to protect humankind against a perceived existential threat by AGI by developing a technology that would also destroy humanity if it works as advertised. Add to all that the cases in which it doesn't work properly. Developing inflammation around the implants, transmitter breaking, batteries running out, losing wireless connection, ... if you think dead zones while hiking are infuriating then wait until your cognitive capabilities depend on a network connection.

I am afraid that all the good that SpaceX or Tesla have achieved so far will be undone by the damage that NeuraLink's technology will do to humankind one day.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#150
For those who don’t know much about this field, this seems incredible. The reality is that this a tech demo that Neuralink is using to practice the basics. For other research groups in this field, this is tech from 20 years ago.

The current state of the art is humans, mostly quadriplegic people, with chips which let them control robot arms with enough accuracy to pick up small delicate objects, play games, and type by thinking words. Current state of the art implants let people get tactile feedback too - they can intuitively know the position of the arm they’re controlling and feel the amount of pressure on each finger tip.

I had the pleasure of meeting a man with an implant in 2016 and the technology he was using was incredible. He could pick up a grape with his arm without crushing it and then eat it. If the arm was in another room, he could feel around with it to find objects. He described how the arm just felt like a part of his body when it’s turned on.

To use SpaceX as an analogy: this isn’t a first flight. This is more like a static test fire. If Neuralink follows the SpaceX trajectory of driving down cost/increasing innovation, it results will be really out of this world. Stuff that would just sound bonkers right now.

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