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Monkey MindPong

neuralink.com

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Re: Monkey MindPong

#131

Post by PetitPrince »

aparsons wrote: post #102
lwansbrough wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, that we know of. To appreciate the complexity you could read this post[0] from Wait But Why? Your brain has approximately 40,000 neurons in the space of a cubic millimeter. Each saying something completely different. It’s incomprehensible noise unless you start dividing it up like Neuralink has. They get a few thousand probes in the size of a penny, which is a far greater level of resolution than you coul…

Do you think something like fMRI would have enough resolution? Can’t pick up activity directly of course, but perhaps by picking up fluid flow differentials?

As mentioned by a sibling comment, fMRI have a sufficient spatial resolution (i.e. you can watch the activity of a few number of neuron at a time instead of grouping them by batch of hhundreds of them), but the temporal resolution is low (order of magnitude is seconds; a single action potential is 5ms).

Here's a graph that summarize the temporal/spatial tradeoff of the different BMI tech: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-various-neural-recor...

Re: Monkey MindPong

#132

Post by numlock86 »

jm4 wrote: post #35

That was difficult to watch. While the technology is impressive, it is sickening to watch. The part where they can pair the phone via bluetooth made me want to vomit. It is obviously unnatural, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Something about seeing that animal, oblivious to what's happening, and that implant with the ability to directly record thoughts and/or remote control. The whole thing doesn't sit well wi…

Yes, it's weird in its special way. Especially the part you mentioned in which they are pairing a phone. Rest assured, this is the most humane invasive lab work on an animal I have ever seen. If you want nightmares check out how they test cochlear implants for example ... No, really, don't do that.

For me the strangest part of watching this is not the lab work or the animal, but the implications of this technology and where it might lead to in the future once applied to humans. I really like the idea and premise presented, but let's be honest: There are also way too many evil use cases ...

Re: Monkey MindPong

#133

Post by sellyme »

caffeine wrote: post #126
aparsons wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine the wonders it would do for interrogation /s

Maybe you're onto something. Assuming your intent is to obtain information from a captured enemy at all costs, an implant like this is probably far more humane than waterboarding or actual torture.

Also, unlike torture, it would work.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#134

Post by bitcharmer »

jm4 wrote: post #35

That was difficult to watch. While the technology is impressive, it is sickening to watch. The part where they can pair the phone via bluetooth made me want to vomit. It is obviously unnatural, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Something about seeing that animal, oblivious to what's happening, and that implant with the ability to directly record thoughts and/or remote control. The whole thing doesn't sit well wi…

This is how progress is made. Similarly, people in DaVinci's times were sickened by his autopsies but that doesn't mean there was something wrong about them.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#135

Post by seesawtron »

quilombodigital wrote: post #56

"What better reward for a monkey, than a banana"? what about FREEDOM? I am not a vegan/whatever/animal activist, but maybe we should allow terminally-ill or death-row volunteers for this kind of experiment... With good money for the family, and I think some people would like to help mankind in the end. It is better than dying without accomplishing anything in life. So, you have at most one year with an inoperable tum…

Patients undergoing brain surgeries are routinely asked to volunteer for neuroscientific studies and they often do so. Terminally ill patients also donate their brain tissue for tons of studies more often than you would think. But the scope of experiments that one can do with them and the available multimodal data available from parallel studies in human cortex is extremely limited.

On the other hand, non-human primates are readily available in a controlled environment, can be used to generate huge amounts of data specific to a diverse set of tasks and experiments that you just can not do on the human patients.

The brain is a complex machine that is extremely hard to decipher just by studying a single species or one kind of experiments. The need for studies across species with a hundred different ways of collecting and analysing data is essential to first understand the mechnasims of the brain and only then (hopefully) be able to causally alter it for specific applications in medicine and so on.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#136

Post by nexuist »

anonytrary wrote: post #86
bckr wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say "this particular exercise", are you referring to the "put the pointer in the box" exercise at the beginning? The Pong part toward the end was pretty cool. I wonder how complex of games the monkey can play :)

I believe pong has less entropy than the initial task of putting the cursor into the box. Pong is a 1D game with one degree of freedom, where you are effectively moving the cursor along the Y-axis. The previous task involved moving the cursor on the XY-plane, which involves two degrees of freedom. Therefore, pong is less impressive than the previous task.

This is difficult to say because pong involves moving components while the box stays still. In order to play pong the monkey must first estimate where the ball will go and then give the command to move the cursor. This indicates that Neuralink may be able to handle complex multitasking, i.e. you may be able to walk or drive and the system will still be able to decode you correctly.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#137

Post by the_dripper »

I know I'm conforming to a stereotype by saying this, but I cant stop thinking about how this could be the premise of a Black Mirror Episode.

I also think we should restrict such technology. Without restrictions we can play God, and I am in no way approving of doing anyhting similar to that.

The part about pairing the monkeys NeuraLink Device "like you do with a speaker" made me laugh. Not becuase it's funny, but because it is so incredibly absurd. I dont know wether to feel good about how far technology has come, or to feel terrified about all the implications.

(I can't help myself; Nietzsche once said (or wrote) "God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?")

Re: Monkey MindPong

#138

Post by tryonenow »

Imagine floating in an isolation tank and coding with your mind. It would be a euphoric state of meditative flow. Such a device can revolutionize productivity of cognitive work by removing the impedance mismatch between intent and code. Imagine if all people were natural power users. The future is blindingly bright.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#139

Post by the_dripper »

gibolt wrote: post #103
anonytrary wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nothing compared to what we were doing in lab several years ago. Neuralink is the least invasive of the invasive ways to conduct this research. I had to put animals down, because they would be defunct after trying to remove those bulkier devices. Neuralink is relatively humane, speaking as someone who has seen this technology in its infancy.

You're right. This monkey gets to earn banana smoothies all day. I'm sure it is quite happy. Much less happy are the animals we eat, those confined in zoos, and many of the pets people lock in tiny spaces.

The monkey probably won't be sad. I think it is entertained all day by the researchers. Playing its games, and drinking its delicious banana smoothie. As you say; Ignorance is bliss.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#140

Post by gitowiec »

Poor monkey. It should belong to the forest or other natural environment it was took from. I don't get it why there are still tests run on animals. The first what technology should bring is a replacement for every animal test subject.
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