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Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

reuters.com

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Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#731

Post by falcolas »

Bud wrote: post #448
falcolas wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History tells us quite clearly that extra-legal justice systems as a response to even some of the worst justice systems creates more problems, not fewer. So no we shouldn't, to use your phrasing, react as we see fit. That's how humanity has historically justified lynching.

Except this isn't a justice system, and doesn't have consequences remotely similar to a justice system. I've taken a -30 karma hit for this particular opinion already, despite very polite language. May as well go for -35.

Tell that to people who are now without jobs because of witchhunts. Jobs which are required in our society to have food on the table, a roof over your head.

Some folks who have been dropped from Twitch thanks to mob justice - where there's no actual crime - can't find a job in the entertainment industry anymore. Imagine being completely blacklisted from your industry because you were reported to have made someone uncomfortable (whether it actually happened or not).

Google never forgets, and people never forgive.

EDIT: To me, politeness doesn't make up for encouraging vigilante justice. My state has a long history of vigilante justice, and it's not pretty.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#732

Post by ngokevin »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #697
rising-sky wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a single firearm? https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/17/politics/capitol-insurrection... However, I'm not sure where you got the "opinion" that an insurrection must be carried out with a firearm? You can do a quick Google search for the definition of the term. Here's one from the Cambridge dictionary > an organized attempt by a group of people to defeat their government and take control of their country, usually by viol…

A protest that was larger than expected and overran the existing security isn't exactly an organized attempt.

Upon watching the evidence and trial, it's clear it was organized. They had Save the Dates months ahead (at the exact time the election was being certified) with continued rhetoric that the election was stolen and that they had to march to the Capitol and fight.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#733

Post by [deleted] »

sneak wrote: post #689
ngokevin wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think many people speaking out against "cancel culture" did not read the article. Few people would argue that Twitch would be wrong to ban a pedophile sharing CP or a domestic terrorist.

I would argue that Twitch would be wrong for banning even a convicted criminal whose publications themselves were legal. Censorship is abhorrent regardless of who you are censoring. Mein Kampf is available on amazon.com, for example.

[deleted]

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#734

Post by themacguffinman »

slg wrote: post #710
themacguffinman wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How would you suggest these people are held accountable if it isn't through "cancel culture" which is basically just the modern equivalent of social shunning that various cultures have been doing for centuries? Long-held traditions of social shunning, ostracization and extrajudicial bullying are widely understood to be terrible and have produced horrific injustices for centuries. What you're calling for is a regres…

For much of the history you are referencing there was no difference between the whims of society and the whims of the judicial system. We now have the separation of the two which opens the loophole I previously mentioned. Do you have any suggestion for how to address that loophole? For example, imagine a scenario in which a loved one comes to you and says they were sexually assaulted two years ago. It happened long e…

We have shifted from relying on the whims of society for justice to relying on the judicial system for justice. There isn't a "separation of the two" even now, there's only one recognized system for determining justice. Vigilante justice is illegal.

No, I absolutely would not help a loved one achieve some sort of extrajudicial punishment, I would instead strongly recommend against it. I would try to comfort and support them, responses that are helpful regardless of how good or badly I personally judge their case and related punishments. I would tell them that perhaps the justice system has failed them and no system is perfect, but vigilante justice is a terrible and unproductive response that breeds more injustice than it resolves.

The way you fix loopholes in the justice system is by fixing loopholes in the justice system. The justice system is governed by laws developed by deliberative bodies held accountable through democracy. It's not pretty and it's not satisfying, but after centuries of gross injustice we should know better than to trust mob justice.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#735

Post by slg »

vvvvgood633 wrote: post #726
slg wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For much of the history you are referencing there was no difference between the whims of society and the whims of the judicial system. We now have the separation of the two which opens the loophole I previously mentioned. Do you have any suggestion for how to address that loophole? For example, imagine a scenario in which a loved one comes to you and says they were sexually assaulted two years ago. It happened long e…

> Do you tell this person "just trust the judicial system" or would you help them achieve some sort of punishment outside of the judicial system such as getting the perpetrator fired? Nope. Neither. I may or may not stop associating with the perpetrator, all things relative to my perception of how bad the thing they’ve been accused of was. I might mention it to mutual acquaintances and let them decide how they want t…

Your child comes to you and says a teacher raped them and your response would be you "might mention it to mutual acquaintances"? You wouldn't want to be a "snitch" and tell the school that employed the teacher?

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#736

Post by ngokevin »

sneak wrote: post #689
ngokevin wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think many people speaking out against "cancel culture" did not read the article. Few people would argue that Twitch would be wrong to ban a pedophile sharing CP or a domestic terrorist.

I would argue that Twitch would be wrong for banning even a convicted criminal whose publications themselves were legal. Censorship is abhorrent regardless of who you are censoring. Mein Kampf is available on amazon.com, for example.

I'm curious. If you are in charge of a public company with a platform. There's a pedophile known for trafficking CP (or even more vile offenses). There are headlines that you're giving them exposure. You don't consider not letting them on your platform?

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#737

Post by 7sidedmarble »

nfyjkbxa wrote: post #700
rising-sky wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a single firearm? https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/17/politics/capitol-insurrection... However, I'm not sure where you got the "opinion" that an insurrection must be carried out with a firearm? You can do a quick Google search for the definition of the term. Here's one from the Cambridge dictionary > an organized attempt by a group of people to defeat their government and take control of their country, usually by viol…

Organized, it says right there. You think that mob was organized? There was no plan Also, your CNN citation says in the headline that there was a gun found, but then the body of the article contradicts it > Some of the weapons that were confiscated had been seen being used inside the US Capitol including a baseball bat, a fire extinguisher, a wooden club, a spear, crutches, a flagpole, bear spray, mace, chemical irri…

Police literally were interviewed and said 'they were confiscating guns all day'.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#738

Post by colinmhayes »

dimgl wrote: post #32
secondcoming wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Posting racist stuff just means you're stupid and the company made a mistake in hiring you.

The issue with this sentiment is that while some things are blatantly racist, there are other things that aren't so black and white. This is one of those slippery slopes where if left unchecked, anything and everything will be considered racist. Also, you don't have to have good morals or even be intelligent to be good at your job. Some people are fantastic at their job, but are pretty damn "stupid" as you put it.

Examples of people being fired for saying things that "aren't so black and white"?

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#739

Post by nine_k »

kodah wrote: post #253

I had to type in this box more times than I'm willing to admit to produce something that didn't violate the guidelines. Let's examine why this is problematic: - This will absolutely be leveraged on anyone in a precarious position. It's their ultimate out. Minority groups, majority groups, it doesn't matter - you're in trouble and need a platform to tell your story? Not happening on Twitch. Expect more to sign on to t…

It's plain and simple: nobody is willing to give you a tribune for a risky public speech on their large, multi-tenant, money-generating property. They don't want the bad PR fallout. Not because they are moralistic; they care about their profits. It's the public who is moralistic, and even a small but vocal group can do a lot of damage to a company image, with a silent / tepid support from the bulk of the public. Don't expect commercial entities to fight for your First Amendment rights; they exist to earn money, and have a ton of honest warnings in their ToS.

If you want to say something that annoys the public, something pushing the frame of the Overton window, write a blog. Run a mailing list. Run a Mastodon instance. Run a private invite-only telegram chat.

And for communicating with your auntie, you don't need a public platform; use an IM. Use Signal if you discuss something that leads to instant deplatforming on Twitter.

Leave Twitch to dancing kids, or whatever is all the rage there now. Leave Facebook to vacation photos and discussing technology, arts, or hobbies. Leave Twitter altogether, or at least go read-only.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#740

Post by darepublic »

ngokevin wrote: post #646
kodah wrote: post #253

I had to type in this box more times than I'm willing to admit to produce something that didn't violate the guidelines. Let's examine why this is problematic: - This will absolutely be leveraged on anyone in a precarious position. It's their ultimate out. Minority groups, majority groups, it doesn't matter - you're in trouble and need a platform to tell your story? Not happening on Twitch. Expect more to sign on to t…

"Terrorist activities, child sexual exploitation, violent extremism, credible threats of mass violence, carrying out or deliberately acting as an accomplice to sexual assault" falls under moralism and cancel culture? We've seen things that fester online that lead to real life tragedies or to the damaging of the fabric of democracy itself. Including insurrection on the US Capitol which took its roots on Twitter. There…

The Chaz was worse wasn't it, there were more deaths, it lasted longer and the participants were given very charitable coverage. Violence and lawlessness is ok if you're on the right team basically.
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