Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#721

Post by choppaface » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 1:14 AM UTC

refenestrator wrote: post #555

choppaface wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of the internet is the original cancel culture. Before the internet, it was easy for speech to get confined to some small region due to financial status, ethnicity, etc. The internet fundamentally counter-acts cancel culture. However, the “right to free speech” does NOT imply a right to be heard. Internet entities can and will do stupid things that interfere with individual expression, but they don’t trample…

You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. Now that access to large broadcast mediums is the norm, it's absolutely a blow to free speech to selectively censor some of it. Maybe we choose to make tradeoffs, but let's do so with our eyes open.

Thanks to the internet, our eyes are more open than ever before. To the point of information overload. No amount of stupid can ever “put the toothpaste back in the tube.” If some speaker gets filtered from broadcast media, perhaps that speaker might rethink their message. Original cancel culture was even more restrictive—- it silenced voices due to the color of the speaker’s skin. It has always been a competitive endeavor to be heard. The internet might not be much of a fairer place for that game, but the potential reach is what makes the game worth it (or not, in some cases).

If you think broadcast media gets it wrong, push back. But if you call it cancel culture, it’s easy to show what we see today is much less harmful than what came before.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#722

Post by a1369209993 » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 1:15 AM UTC

edmundsauto wrote: post #580

a1369209993 wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no need to track this as anything other than a continuation in a long history of collective groups of humans doing what they do. That's fair and accurate as far as it goes, but it doesn't really negate the need to oppose this particular continuation of said history, any more than it negated the need to oppose eg Prohibition or the Spanish Inquision when those were happening.

There is a need to negate the narrative attributed to the phrase "cancel culture" - said narrative is that liberals are censoring conservative voices. (IE, it's often discussed as a directional issue, and not a systemic one.)

Actually I don't really care about conservatives getting censored[0]. I care about decent people, the ones who are not liberals or conservatives[1], getting censored or otherwise attacked for not supporting liberals (or McCarthists, or Christians, or whoever happens to be popular at the time).

0: except in a "huh, the canary just died" kind of way.

1: or whoever happens to be popular at the time.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#723

Post by castis » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 1:15 AM UTC

nfyjkbxa wrote: post #700

rising-sky wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a single firearm? https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/17/politics/capitol-insurrection... However, I'm not sure where you got the "opinion" that an insurrection must be carried out with a firearm? You can do a quick Google search for the definition of the term. Here's one from the Cambridge dictionary > an organized attempt by a group of people to defeat their government and take control of their country, usually by viol…

Organized, it says right there. You think that mob was organized? There was no plan Also, your CNN citation says in the headline that there was a gun found, but then the body of the article contradicts it > Some of the weapons that were confiscated had been seen being used inside the US Capitol including a baseball bat, a fire extinguisher, a wooden club, a spear, crutches, a flagpole, bear spray, mace, chemical irri…

It is absurd to assume that there were zero firearms of any kind at that event. There aren't zero firearms at children's birthday parties.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#724

Post by rsj_hn » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 1:17 AM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #567

Pfhreak wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are correct in that these tools will undoubtedly be used against progressive folks and minorities, as that's historically where they've been used. I believe that Twitch has too much power/authority, but also I believe that it's reasonable to moderate speech in communities and platforms. That said, I believe there's a material difference between examples and what was shared in the parent comment. I don't t…

Both "I think gay folks should have equal rights" and "America deserved 9/11" are fundamentally statements about ethics, and neither is calling for violence.

There have been multiple calls for violence against the police and against ICE coming from the left. Hacker News played a role in disclosing the home addresses of ICE employees shortly before a sniper shot through the windows of one of the locations at the address. Go read the stuff the John Brown Gun club is putting out.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#725

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 1:17 AM UTC

nfyjkbxa wrote: post #700

rising-sky wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a single firearm? https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/17/politics/capitol-insurrection... However, I'm not sure where you got the "opinion" that an insurrection must be carried out with a firearm? You can do a quick Google search for the definition of the term. Here's one from the Cambridge dictionary > an organized attempt by a group of people to defeat their government and take control of their country, usually by viol…

Organized, it says right there. You think that mob was organized? There was no plan Also, your CNN citation says in the headline that there was a gun found, but then the body of the article contradicts it > Some of the weapons that were confiscated had been seen being used inside the US Capitol including a baseball bat, a fire extinguisher, a wooden club, a spear, crutches, a flagpole, bear spray, mace, chemical irri…

[deleted]

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#726

Post by vvvvgood633 » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 1:17 AM UTC

slg wrote: post #710

themacguffinman wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How would you suggest these people are held accountable if it isn't through "cancel culture" which is basically just the modern equivalent of social shunning that various cultures have been doing for centuries? Long-held traditions of social shunning, ostracization and extrajudicial bullying are widely understood to be terrible and have produced horrific injustices for centuries. What you're calling for is a regres…

For much of the history you are referencing there was no difference between the whims of society and the whims of the judicial system. We now have the separation of the two which opens the loophole I previously mentioned. Do you have any suggestion for how to address that loophole? For example, imagine a scenario in which a loved one comes to you and says they were sexually assaulted two years ago. It happened long e…

> Do you tell this person "just trust the judicial system" or would you help them achieve some sort of punishment outside of the judicial system such as getting the perpetrator fired?

Nope. Neither. I may or may not stop associating with the perpetrator, all things relative to my perception of how bad the thing they’ve been accused of was. I might mention it to mutual acquaintances and let them decide how they want to deal without any judgement on my part.

Trying to get someone fired / hurting their livelihood in general seems quite childish.

I try to mind my own business. I don’t snitch on anybody if I see them doing something wrong. I don’t join online mobs or rage on anybody.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#727

Post by aigen001 » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 1:20 AM UTC

nfyjkbxa wrote: post #700

rising-sky wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a single firearm? https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/17/politics/capitol-insurrection... However, I'm not sure where you got the "opinion" that an insurrection must be carried out with a firearm? You can do a quick Google search for the definition of the term. Here's one from the Cambridge dictionary > an organized attempt by a group of people to defeat their government and take control of their country, usually by viol…

Organized, it says right there. You think that mob was organized? There was no plan Also, your CNN citation says in the headline that there was a gun found, but then the body of the article contradicts it > Some of the weapons that were confiscated had been seen being used inside the US Capitol including a baseball bat, a fire extinguisher, a wooden club, a spear, crutches, a flagpole, bear spray, mace, chemical irri…

Here's your gun.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/case-multi-defendant/file/13...

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#728

Post by otterley » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 1:20 AM UTC

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #486

beaconstudios wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe there's precedent for them severing a massive partner at will, in the case of Dr Disrespect.

Yes, but it's always always better to have a policy in place than to make one-off decisions.

This isn't always feasible or practical. People can't always foresee the future (otherwise gambling wouldn't be a thing). So we can't assume that a policy can cover every possible scenario that might occur. Things happen that practically nobody thought might happen. This is why "escape hatch" clauses were invented--to give parties a way out in the event that the unforeseen occurs.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#729

Post by vvvvgood633 » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 1:23 AM UTC

xupybd wrote: post #696

slg wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that the Pilgrims came to America for religious freedom is mostly a fairy tale. But either way, there is a world a difference between shunning someone for exercising religious freedom and shunning someone who very likely committed sexual assault. EDIT: This is being downvoted. I'm not sure if it is the Pilgrims comments, so I will point people to the Wikipedia article and the second sentence which notes that…

I think we will have to agree to disagree on the history of the Pilgrims. I don't think there is a world of difference between the two. You are shunning someone because it is very likely the did something wrong. If that is your close friend and you think they did it, then it's probably a good idea to shun them. The hope is that they will see they did something wrong, own up and change. This makes the world a better p…

> Then what happens when someone changes their ways and becomes a better person? Do we keep them blacklisted? This seems to be the way we are operating.

Right. Twitter hands out lifetime bans. I was very encouraged this week by Justice Thomas’ opinions on monopolistic platforms. https://www.npr.org/2021/04/05/984440891/justice-clarence-th...

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#730

Post by ngokevin » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 1:25 AM UTC

jkhdigital wrote: post #666

ngokevin wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Terrorist activities, child sexual exploitation, violent extremism, credible threats of mass violence, carrying out or deliberately acting as an accomplice to sexual assault" falls under moralism and cancel culture? We've seen things that fester online that lead to real life tragedies or to the damaging of the fabric of democracy itself. Including insurrection on the US Capitol which took its roots on Twitter. There…

A rowdy unarmed (not a single firearm) mob is not an “insurrection”. I’m not condoning what happened, but can we please stop using hyperbolic language?

I watched the whole trial, it's pretty hard to excuse. Even GOP minority senate leader agreed he was guilty of inciting insurrection (despite voting not to convict on a technicality he created). Sorry if it doesn't match up with your worldview.