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Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

reuters.com

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Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#591

Post by ativzzz »

beaner wrote: post #506
ohazi wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no other choice if they want to reach viewers > are incredibly few esports careers that could survive a Twitch ban (emphasis mine) People have never been entitled to a sports career, or to celebrity status by reaching viewers on someone else's platform. These platforms have democratized the "rags to riches" story, but whether it was the '30s or the '60s or the '90s, you've always had to play by the rules of the pre…

No, it just means your eligibility for a professional career may come down to whether or not a random mod on a streaming platform simply thinks it's "funny" to ban you.

Then maybe you should reconsider your choice of professional careers if that's a risk factor and your risk tolerance isn't high enough.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#592

Post by a1369209993 »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #408
Retric wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several bright lines like having an engine.

That's not a really bright line https://www.homedepot.com/p/YARDMAX-Powered-Wheelbarrow-YD41... Having a crew isn't a bright line either since two people will often manhandle a single heavy wheelbarrow. The brightest line is probably that a bulk freighter floats. Still it's a series of small incremental changes all the way from wheelbarrow to mining dump truck (then there's some lines you cross before you get to a bu…

> The brightest line is probably that a bulk freighter floats.

Some wheelbarrows will float just because they weigh little enough compared to how much water their bucket displaces. Also, I don't think it stops being a wheelbarrow if you strap a couple of empty barrels to the side (I've done that, when hauling junk across a river).

To head off the obvious rebuttal, you could totally attach wheels (or maybe caterpillar treads) to the bottom of bulk freighter, even if nobody has (probably) bothered to build such thing yet.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#593

Post by LudwigNagasena »

edoceo wrote: post #491
LudwigNagasena wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We agree that kids become adults at 18 and no one has a big problem with this. I don’t believe demarcating this “some point” is far more complicated.

Please do it then. What is this mark? 80% of TAM? Revenue over $250k/yr/employee? 10000 users?

We can start with companies with a market cap over $1bln for example. And tinker the policy based on empirical data.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#594

Post by andrepd »

dagw wrote: post #276
newbie789 wrote: post #250

Coming from the perspective of someone that was an admin of a medium-large forum back in the vBulletin heyday of the early 2000s, I’m somewhat amused by people getting angry at moderation decisions. The rules were pretty clear: This is my website. I pay the bills and maintain it. Here are some clear rules that if you break them, you will be punished with a ban/suspension/shadow an/redirect to goatse upon login/etc. a…

The significant difference is I (assume) no one depended on your forum for earning a significant part of their income. Once you set yourself as a place where you want people come and earn money, then banning them, and thus depriving them of something of real monetary value, takes on and entire different set of nuances.

Absolutely. Platforms like Twitch, Facebook, Twitter, or other giants, reap enormous benefits from being a "platform" which contains the majority (or a huge chunk) of the sectors they play in. It's time they also pay their due price for the benefits they reap.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#595

Post by refenestrator »

viraptor wrote: post #583
refenestrator wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Held accountable by whom? We didn't elect twitch. Who decides who needs to be held accountable, and for what? Shouldn't that be the justice system? Twitch mentioned proactively banning people who are arrested, without using the word 'convicted'. Which demographics is that likely to affect?

You're thinking of it like a legal process. Think of a private party instead - you're happy to invite lots of people, but everyone heard Adam was a real asshole to someone in public, so you don't want to have him at the party anymore (even though he was never bad at your previous parties specifically). It's a reasonable thing to do and you have about the same level of responsibility for your party as twitch has for t…

I don't have the power to ban Adam from all parties. Twitch effectively does, in this case.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#596

Post by akira2501 »

viraptor wrote: post #583
refenestrator wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Held accountable by whom? We didn't elect twitch. Who decides who needs to be held accountable, and for what? Shouldn't that be the justice system? Twitch mentioned proactively banning people who are arrested, without using the word 'convicted'. Which demographics is that likely to affect?

You're thinking of it like a legal process. Think of a private party instead - you're happy to invite lots of people, but everyone heard Adam was a real asshole to someone in public, so you don't want to have him at the party anymore (even though he was never bad at your previous parties specifically). It's a reasonable thing to do and you have about the same level of responsibility for your party as twitch has for t…

> Think of a private party instead

The extent to which corporations should be considered private entities does not seem like a settled question to me. Your corporation has no natural right to exist, and therefore does not have the natural right to do business solely as it pleases.

> and you have about the same level of responsibility for your party as twitch has for their platform.

What responsibility are they exercising? If the behavior on their platform is not disruptive to it, then what precisely are they defending their users _from_?

> You probably also don't care what the justice system thinks about the invitations to your party.

Invite someone on the most wanted list. I can't imagine it playing out that well for you.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#597

Post by ativzzz »

omgwtfbbq wrote: post #359

>How different is that from at-will employment though? You can be fired at any time and for more or less any non-federally-protected reason (and can quit any time too). That seems pretty uncontroversial in the US at least. Most Europeans would be horrified by this concept so I'm not sure it supports your argument.

As a software engineer, I fully support at-will employment.

If I were say, a barista or a warehouse worker (any job that is low-skill relative to white-collar careers and easily replaceable) I would disagree.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#598

Post by LudwigNagasena »

ceejayoz wrote: post #523
LudwigNagasena wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We agree that kids become adults at 18 and no one has a big problem with this. I don’t believe demarcating this “some point” is far more complicated.

> We agree that kids become adults at 18 and no one has a big problem with this. We don’t, though. Can’t drink until 21. Rental cars and credit cards have extra restrictions until 25. Etc.

We don’t what? Do you see many people who say that 6 year old kids should vote? Do you see many people who advocate that driving should be banned until 40? Do you think that credit card restrictions undermine the concept of the age of majority? No. We can put an arbitrary delimiter at first and argue about specifics later.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#599

Post by floatingatoll »

refenestrator wrote: post #581
CharlesW wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitch is a private company (Amazon). Simply don't use it if you don't like it's ToS, or otherwise disagree with how it handles relationships with the creators who've agreed to it.

[flagged]

The parent comment you're replying to notes, correctly, that the behaviors you label "corporate libertarian" are the choices available today. It's not valid to infer and label the beliefs of the poster of that comment for describing these choices under the current US situation, even if those choices seems unjust and cruel, as it's entirely possible they don't agree, or they have more nuanced beliefs, or maybe they're just bitter today for reasons wholly unrelated to the topic at hand. You could instead indicate that what they describe is precisely the circumstance you wish to change (you do wish to change that, right?), and maybe you could even go into detail how you'd change it (would you pass new laws? what would they say?), and what approach you think would be effective for making that happen. Anything along those lines would be valuable and relevant.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#600

Post by oth001 »

clarifier123 wrote: post #362

After reddit started banning people for upvoting the wrong things, this is a logical next step. Contrary to the popular belief, slippery slope isn't a logical fallacy. Anonymity is the only way to combat this. Make sure your online identity isn't connected to your real name. Ideally, you should have separate identities for each website. Using Tor or a VPN is also a good idea.

If you want to earn income via Twitch, Patreon, etc., you have to provide your real identity though, no?
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