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Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

reuters.com

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Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#451

Post by concordDance »

smt88 wrote: post #389
ttt0 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and I don't care about free market. We're already doing this, we're forcing private companies to do business with people they don't want to do business with right now. I don't even care so much about social media, but banks and services that provide basic infrastructure to keep your own web services afloat shouldn't be allowed to discriminate people based on their politics.

> discriminate people based on their politics It usually seems to be based on people's bigotry or sexual misconduct. I haven't yet seen a politics-based ban. Regardless, politics is not a protected class, nor should it be. If your political view is fascist, why should you have the same protections as someone who is born a minority? One thing can be changed and can be thought of as evil; the other can't.

> I haven't yet seen a politics-based ban.

Wouldn't Trump himself count?

> Regardless, politics is not a protected class, nor should it be.

I think it should be, because attempting to ban political views gets in the way of finding out which political views are better. I don't know what "fascist" is, but I can definitely imagine political views like "Communism is a good way to run the country" or "Capitalism results in the best outcomes for everyone" being banned and I really don't like it.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#452

Post by scarmig »

tw04 wrote: post #111
redm wrote: post #8

"The company said users will be able to report such behaviors but it may also investigate cases proactively, for instance if there is a verified news report that a user has been arrested." So we've arrived at "innocent until accused" instead of "innocent until proven guilty"? And if proven guilty, they will both be punished under the law, and again by companies like Twitch? If proven innocent will they be restored? W…

So you want the government to force private companies to continue doing business with someone they no longer wish to provide services to? We aren't talking protected class here, we're talking private companies picking and choosing who to do business with via non-discriminatory means. That's called a free market. Will they be restored if they're proven innocent? Maybe. Maybe not. Again, that's called a free market.

> So you want the government to force private companies to continue doing business with someone they no longer wish to provide services to?

How deep does your commitment to private corporate power go? For instance, suppose Comcast decided it doesn't want to provide cable or internet service to a particular cancellee. Does this bother you, or no? Does it matter if it's a monopoly setting? If it does, suppose we're in a duopoly market, and both companies refuse service to the cancellee. Does this worry you?

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#453

Post by exolymph »

_jal wrote: post #414
CBLT wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add a little extra context to what other people are giving you: large, million-dollar digital tournaments stream on Twitch because they have no other choice if they want to reach viewers. ESL signed a deal with Facebook streaming that destroyed their viewership numbers because people go to Twitch to watch, not the website for the tournament. Organizers have clearly seen this and will not move their stream to anoth…

> a Twitch ban is effectively a ban on all opportunities that involve money in the esports scene. I suggest you ask Colin Kaepernick about how it is in the non-'E' sports world. (Edit: misspelled name)

The dude who landed a big advertising campaign with Nike based on his high-profile activism?

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#454

Post by beaconstudios »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #344
otterley wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building your business on someone else's property subjects you to a material risk that the owner may someday kick you out. Being a responsible business owner means you recognize that risk and mitigate it as needed for business continuity, and have contingency plans in the event that it happens.

Sure, but the more important factor in these sorts of relationships is that there is in fact usually a binding contract. Twitch refers to these as "Partners" who they have extended a contract to. While I am sure Twitch has the ability to sever that contract essentially at will, it doesn't mean they are exempt from legal repercussions of doing so.

I believe there's precedent for them severing a massive partner at will, in the case of Dr Disrespect.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#455

Post by Ekaros »

notyourday wrote: post #260

This is actually creating an opportunity for a reasonable competitor to show up - with Twitch deciding they are going to play "Internet police" their competitor does not actually need to be "Wild west", it simply needs to offer "We only police our service" while providing similar quality of experience.

Have a clear set of rules. And apply those equally. I don't ask much, like if you stream outright porn on platform and that is banned, maybe you should stay banned... Or if someone gets a pass everyone should get a pass...

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#456

Post by tesmar2 »

omgwtfbbq wrote: post #449
tesmar2 wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure why Americans care? Europe makes a different, worse tradeoff.

I doubt they would agree. Money != everything.

Well, it’s not just money. By lowering the taxes and regulatory environment, you increase individual freedoms. That’s worth a lot to Americans.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#457

Post by ohazi »

CBLT wrote: post #352
newbie789 wrote: post #250

Coming from the perspective of someone that was an admin of a medium-large forum back in the vBulletin heyday of the early 2000s, I’m somewhat amused by people getting angry at moderation decisions. The rules were pretty clear: This is my website. I pay the bills and maintain it. Here are some clear rules that if you break them, you will be punished with a ban/suspension/shadow an/redirect to goatse upon login/etc. a…

To add a little extra context to what other people are giving you: large, million-dollar digital tournaments stream on Twitch because they have no other choice if they want to reach viewers. ESL signed a deal with Facebook streaming that destroyed their viewership numbers because people go to Twitch to watch, not the website for the tournament. Organizers have clearly seen this and will not move their stream to anoth…

> no other choice if they want to reach viewers

> are incredibly few esports careers that could survive a Twitch ban

(emphasis mine)

People have never been entitled to a sports career, or to celebrity status by reaching viewers on someone else's platform. These platforms have democratized the "rags to riches" story, but whether it was the '30s or the '60s or the '90s, you've always had to play by the rules of the prevailing media empire. This is no different.

Companies are generally allowed to set arbitrary criteria for who they're willing to work with. There are some very specific exceptions around discrimination against a very short list of protected classes. Other than that, rules restricting conduct are usually legal. Note that I'm not claiming that rules like these are moral, I'm just pointing out that they're usually found to be legal when challenged.

The fact that you can sign up for an account in your bedroom in pajamas instead of signing documents at a lawyer's office in Hollywood doesn't magically make this a public square subject to a different set of rules.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#458

Post by concordDance »

smt88 wrote: post #398
caturopath wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So you want the government to force private companies to continue doing business with someone they no longer wish to provide services to? I don't think OP actually said this. But yes, like most people, I want this to happen sometimes. For example, I want a hotel to have to lodge Indian people, whether they actually want to or not. In other cases, I don't want this to be legally required, but still will complain if…

It's incredible stupid to say that protecting an ethnicity (something that can't be changed) is tantamount of protecting ideology (something you are not born with and something that sometimes includes advocating for violence). Also, no one is illegalizing anything by banning it from Twitch.

Is being alterable really the important distinction here though?

If I invented a machine that could change physical features between the various ethnicities of the world, would banning Indians from your hotel suddenly be ok?

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#459

Post by omgwtfbbq »

tesmar2 wrote: post #456
omgwtfbbq wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt they would agree. Money != everything.

Well, it’s not just money. By lowering the taxes and regulatory environment, you increase individual freedoms. That’s worth a lot to Americans.

Sure, the freedom to be murdered in a mass shooting or go bankrupt due to a basic medical issue. I think much of the world thinks that the American "System" is rather disturbing and callous.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#460

Post by Broken_Hippo »

rightbyte wrote: post #262
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making a hostile environment at work probably isn't protected, though, and that's what carrying a swastika flag on national television will make. As soon as I know a coworker is running about carrying a swastika flag, I can never feel safe around that coworker again.

Prince Harry, John Cleese etc beg to differ. Or are we working with hypotetical actual nazis? 5g covid thruthers?

Almost every rule has an exception or two. In general, however, most of us aren't working with folks seriously into theater and such things.

Even when folks are, I'm still suspicious until they prove otherwise.

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