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Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

reuters.com

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Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#111

Post by tw04 »

redm wrote: post #8

"The company said users will be able to report such behaviors but it may also investigate cases proactively, for instance if there is a verified news report that a user has been arrested." So we've arrived at "innocent until accused" instead of "innocent until proven guilty"? And if proven guilty, they will both be punished under the law, and again by companies like Twitch? If proven innocent will they be restored? W…

So you want the government to force private companies to continue doing business with someone they no longer wish to provide services to?

We aren't talking protected class here, we're talking private companies picking and choosing who to do business with via non-discriminatory means.

That's called a free market.

Will they be restored if they're proven innocent? Maybe. Maybe not. Again, that's called a free market.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#112

Post by Acrobatic_Road »

redm wrote: post #8

"The company said users will be able to report such behaviors but it may also investigate cases proactively, for instance if there is a verified news report that a user has been arrested." So we've arrived at "innocent until accused" instead of "innocent until proven guilty"? And if proven guilty, they will both be punished under the law, and again by companies like Twitch? If proven innocent will they be restored? W…

>but it may also investigate cases proactively

Translation: We're going to ban whoever the ADL and SPLC point the finger at.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#113

Post by ipaddr »

TameAntelope wrote: post #51
dimgl wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you (and dozens of others on this site) continue make this argument over and over doesn't mean that it isn't a problem. Edit: someone built that town square. Someone founded those forums. At the end of the day, someone is always in control of something.

Free speech includes reacting to what someone else has said. You can make an argument about whether or not people should have thicker skin, but you can't make an argument that people should not be allowed to react to speech without forfeiting the moral concept of freedom of speech. Someone did build the town square, and if that someone was a private entity, that someone can kick everyone right the heck out of the tow…

They are like a mall. It appears to be a public space. It shares the characterics of one. But at it's heart it is a private space with camera everywhere and eager to throwout those who do not appear to be the norm.

Homeless, poor, young and oddities get removed from malls for being themselves. We're seeing the same online.

Governments don't buy malls. Malls are designed to get you to spend. These sites want you to spend and if you do or don't they will send all of the info they collected about you and sell it to someone else.

We need more hobbiest sites. Government should provide free spaces.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#114

Post by kstrauser »

elric wrote: post #77
crisdux wrote: post #24

My employer can fire me for severe misconduct that occurs away from the office. Is that any different? Isn't this normal at most companies?

Depends on where in the world you live. Also depends on the kind of misconduct. In general I'm of a mind that it isn't any of my employer's business what I get up to when I'm off the clock. If they can define "misconduct" in a sensible way they're probably free to add it to my employment contract, in which case I can decide for myself whether or not to work for them. Anything less is arbitrary nonsense and will likel…

There's such a huge grey area, though. On one extreme: I work at a desk job and it'd be insane for my employer to fire me for getting a speeding ticket doing 70 in a 65 zone. On the other: if I were shown in a CNN video carrying a swastika flag in a parade, I absolutely 100% expect I'd be jobless by the time I got home. I wouldn't pause for a moment at an employment contract that says the latter violates their rules.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#115

Post by Pfhreak »

aeturnum wrote: post #52
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we've arrived at "innocent until accused" instead of "innocent until proven guilty" For a platform like Twitch, this is fine. They have a brand. They’re akin to a modern television channel, and television has always been this ruthless. There are lots of other streaming sites.

I agree that twitch is within their rights . I also think we're within our rights to pressure them to adopt standards we would like. The law has long recognized different rights for "public figures" and private citizens, and I think that most Twitch users are better understood as private citizens. Even if I felt the behavior policing history of media was perfect (I do not), I think this is different in important ways…

> I also think we're within our rights to pressure them to adopt standards we would like.

I think this is what's happening, it's just that the users of Twitch want something different than what you want. You might think they're the vocal minority or something, but Twitch is almost certainly making a data driven decision here.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#116

Post by alacombe »

throwaway3699 wrote: post #73
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we've arrived at "innocent until accused" instead of "innocent until proven guilty" For a platform like Twitch, this is fine. They have a brand. They’re akin to a modern television channel, and television has always been this ruthless. There are lots of other streaming sites.

Twitch is not a television channel. Twitch is tens of thousands of television channels.

Be careful, it's almost as if Twitch was to qualify as a "common carrier"...

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#117

Post by [deleted] »

Bud wrote: post #34
redm wrote: post #8

"The company said users will be able to report such behaviors but it may also investigate cases proactively, for instance if there is a verified news report that a user has been arrested." So we've arrived at "innocent until accused" instead of "innocent until proven guilty"? And if proven guilty, they will both be punished under the law, and again by companies like Twitch? If proven innocent will they be restored? W…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#118

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

ronsor wrote: post #60

Because this is always brought up, I will remark that I believe what the majority of commenters likely mean by free speech is the principle itself, and not the restrictions imposed on the government by the First Amendment. First and foremost, free speech is a moral principle. Secondly, while private companies can do what they want, that does not mean they should . Private companies like Apple can avoid taxes, yet man…

> First and foremost, free speech is a moral principle.

Entirely.

But... man I’m not so sure as many people believe this as they should. Can we not ignore that as soon as these tech companies get monopoly status, they close their fists in more every day? Something has to give.

We would (should) not accept that someone with “wrong” views be denied a bank account or to shop at a grocery store. Why does government need to step in and whitelist which services are protected?

When are we going to be honest that none of this is about protecting people, but protecting ideas? The idea my political wedge issue is correct, so I’ll ban anyone that disagrees. The idea that I should be allowed to run a monopoly, eating and smashing any potential competitors?

None of this is about Black Lives or Covid or Elections. That’s the cover to get the thing they really want. Agreement with ideas you have or that keep you in power.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#119

Post by teachtwolearn »

paxys wrote: post #71
cik wrote: post #7

Is there any doubt that we've entered the era of approved, or not free speech. 'Severe misconduct' today means racist behaviour, perhaps tomorrow it means support for the NRA, or anti-environmental behaviour. The thought police have finally invaded ever part of society.

What was this magical era of free speech that people keep referring to?

Probably the eras when it was feasible to regularly communicate with small groups of people outside of a few highly-centralized platforms.

At this point, there's a credible argument to be made that the Facebook empire is a sort of natural monopoly, like our public utilities. They need to be heavily regulated, split up into regional operators, and/or legislated out of existence.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#120

Post by unethical_ban »

paxys wrote: post #71
cik wrote: post #7

Is there any doubt that we've entered the era of approved, or not free speech. 'Severe misconduct' today means racist behaviour, perhaps tomorrow it means support for the NRA, or anti-environmental behaviour. The thought police have finally invaded ever part of society.

What was this magical era of free speech that people keep referring to?

Probably the era when the entire history of any and all activity you've ever done is logged, photographed and held to standards of when it is viewed, not when it was said or done.
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