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Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

reuters.com

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Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#81

Post by adzzzz »

PeterisP wrote: post #54
redm wrote: post #8

"The company said users will be able to report such behaviors but it may also investigate cases proactively, for instance if there is a verified news report that a user has been arrested." So we've arrived at "innocent until accused" instead of "innocent until proven guilty"? And if proven guilty, they will both be punished under the law, and again by companies like Twitch? If proven innocent will they be restored? W…

Presumption of innocence and proven beyond all reasonable doubt is the bar that has to be met in order to put someone in prison. However, people are completely entitled to decide to shun someone or not do business with them based on mere suspicion or some arbitrary subjective standards (with certain narrow exceptions e.g. discrimination of protected classes) - "freedom of association" is the default condition and a k…

Yes they are entitled and we are allowed to disagree with it. That's the point everyone is trying to make. These legalistic arguments are silly and distracting.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#82

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

Spartan-S63 wrote: post #45
tenebrisalietum wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your speech is really valuable you shouldn't depend on the free services of a privately-owned ad-supported company meant for streaming games to propagate it. Furthermore speech as the forefathers probably meant was people physically going to town squares and talking there. There is free press, which is what social media is more like, and the owner of a press has the right to decide what he/she will print--the Cons…

So much this. Society is balking at the cession of power from governments to private companies and are all of a sudden upset that private companies don't have to grant them any rights. If we really want free speech platforms, lobby government to craft spaces for it in the digital age. Instead of muddying public rights in private property, let's just fund more public property (i.e. nationalized social media platform).

> If we really want free speech platforms, lobby government to craft spaces for it in the digital age.

“A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take everything away.”

I disagree this is a job for government directly. No, I don’t want government socialized Facebook!

I want the government to enforce the spirit of antitrust law. They are ignoring that a competitor to Facebook CAN NOT exist because Facebook will smother or absorb them. I would like government to compel Facebook to use open data standards I can use to take my data to a service that isn’t actively trying to psychologically bleed me daily.

If Google trying hard couldn’t dent Facebook, there is no chance an organic startup will do it. And double extra certain a state run expensive and uninspired clone would do it - not to mention you’d be more wise to trust Facebook with your data than the government directly.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#83

Post by goatcode »

paxys wrote: post #71
cik wrote: post #7

Is there any doubt that we've entered the era of approved, or not free speech. 'Severe misconduct' today means racist behaviour, perhaps tomorrow it means support for the NRA, or anti-environmental behaviour. The thought police have finally invaded ever part of society.

What was this magical era of free speech that people keep referring to?

Some time up until people started getting the internet on their phones, roughly. Of course, no definition is perfect.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#84

Post by Bud »

Veen wrote: post #68
Bud wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except there was no "mob justice" here; you are overreacting and using terms that should be reserved for violent consequences in situations that do not justify such words. I understand why you have to exaggerate, though.

And I can understand why you have to minimize. Although, I don't understand how anyone fails to fear the consequences of "people being held accountable by society for their conduct"—an idea that gladdens the hearts of authoritarians, sectarians, and zealots who are absolutely convinced of their righteousness and moral superiority. It will not result in healing, but in deeper division and ever greater polarization. He…

I would say that a compromise position can be found.

Certainly I join in your healthy fears of some misguided actions which have been attributed to "cancel culture". And I also concede that there have been quite a few such actions.

However, I'd also ask that you recognize that many of the reactions and consequences attributed to "cancel culture" have been entirely justified, and appropriate, and have resulted in overall good outcomes to society.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#85

Post by exolymph »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #13
redm wrote: post #8

"The company said users will be able to report such behaviors but it may also investigate cases proactively, for instance if there is a verified news report that a user has been arrested." So we've arrived at "innocent until accused" instead of "innocent until proven guilty"? And if proven guilty, they will both be punished under the law, and again by companies like Twitch? If proven innocent will they be restored? W…

> we've arrived at "innocent until accused" instead of "innocent until proven guilty" For a platform like Twitch, this is fine. They have a brand. They’re akin to a modern television channel, and television has always been this ruthless. There are lots of other streaming sites.

ethics =/= legality

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#86

Post by kps »

trutannus wrote: post #4
monkeybutton wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>corporate organized blacklisting, which has been illegal for years. Does that mean Uber and Lyft sharing lists of drivers that have been banned from their platforms is illegal?

Uber and Lyft drivers are technically external contractors. Not employees. As far ask I know, there's no law about sharing bad contractors names.

In some jurisdictions, they are legally employees. ‘Move fast and break laws’ doesn't work everywhere.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#87

Post by neaden »

Areibman wrote: post #66

It's strange to see a company that once prided itself on active engagement with its users to find product-market fit antagonize its content creators so much. And as a user, it gives me the perception that the platform is just plainly unfair. (Plus the platform is unusable without Adblock). Top streamers have been banned or lost partnerships for playing their own music[0], stating controversial political opinions[1][2…

First link: DMCA problems, this is super common but Twitch is reacting to a very poorly written law. Second link: Someone got in trouble for saying "America Deserved 9/11" which is a bit beyond a controversial political opinion. Third link: Person advocated that people start shooting protestors, a literal call for violence once again beyond a controversial political opinion. Fourth Link: Played a game (not a movie) that included nudity. Twitch has pretty clear policy on that and while it wasn't intentional on the streamers part, not allowing nudity is a pretty standard thing.

None of your links back up the idea that Twitch is cracking down on free speech.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#88

Post by marcinzm »

s7atic wrote: post #42
weego wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumption of innocence is a legal principle and does not and will never apply to a corporation providing you services at their own discretion.

No, presumption of innocence is first and foremost a moral principle. Our legal systems are reflections of our collective morals.

The moral principle in this case is that we don't think jail (or worse) should happen without being proven guilty. That does not mean we collectively believe all consequence requires proof of being guilty. Morals and punishment are not binary systems.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#89

Post by paxys »

goatcode wrote: post #83
paxys wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was this magical era of free speech that people keep referring to?

Some time up until people started getting the internet on their phones, roughly. Of course, no definition is perfect.

Before people had internet it was ~5 media companies that decided what could be said in public and who could say it. It was hardly as "free" as people imagine.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#90

Post by saul_goodman »

Bud wrote: post #34
redm wrote: post #8

"The company said users will be able to report such behaviors but it may also investigate cases proactively, for instance if there is a verified news report that a user has been arrested." So we've arrived at "innocent until accused" instead of "innocent until proven guilty"? And if proven guilty, they will both be punished under the law, and again by companies like Twitch? If proven innocent will they be restored? W…

[flagged]

No one understands the true nature of the "woke mob" and "cancel culture" until several thousand people on the interwebs threaten to have you fired, shot, and your family murdered because of a simple mis-understanding. Until this happens to all the virtue-signaling crusaders out there they will continue to claim cancel culture doesn't exist, that only the racists, white supremacists, and "people who deserved it" have this happen to them.

It's not possible to apologize in these cases as if you admit any culpability it WILL be used against you to do as much additional damage as can be done. You can't backtrack, you must simply weather the storm and hope your employer who's known you much longer than a pack of wild woke-mobbers will give you the benefit of the doubt rather than assume that you eat minority children for breakfast.

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