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Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

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Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're minor investments practically, and major investments politically. As you say, for many motorists, giving up space on even some roads to cyclists is treated like some sort of war crime. There's very much of attitude of, "we can't just have a majority of the road space -- we need nearly all of it!"

Spoken like someone who's never driven in a city. City streets are narrow and extremely uncomfortable to drive on as it is.

Then _don't drive in the city._

Why is this so hard to understand? Unless you're a delivery vehicle, driving in a city is just antisocial.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#262
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reads like you're someone who's never cycled in a city.

On the contrary, if you act like a car, using the same streets as the cars is quite safe in my experience. I've safely cycled with a cello on my back by simply following the rules most cyclists claim to follow but ignore: stopping at stop lights, signalling when I'm about to turn. You know, looking out for my own safety. EDIT: If following the same rules as everyone else is too much to ask, maybe you should just stay…

If the only way to cycle safely in the city is to pretend you're a full sized motor vehicle, it sounds like you understand how ridiculous it is that the roads are designed for and devoted to cars.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#263
post #27
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you have to eat a bit more if you ride more, I certainly notice when I bike to work (5mi each way, 300ft climb) that I need to eat a bit more food. Certainly no where near the energy of a car though but its not zero. Assuming you want to maintain your weight.

That’s a strong assumption. I for one wouldn’t eat less if I stopped biking. I commute to work, do shopping and go everywhere by bike throughout the year. I don’t own a car.

Just my experience. I stopped biking to work due to COVID and I eat less than before. I tried to just go for a 5mi ride in the morning but I'm not motivated w/o the commute and just take the dog for a walk instead.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, without cars we would need no lanes.

What do you do in winter? Or during rain?

Public transport and walking. Actually, I bike in the rain with a raincoat, it's great.

For the last four years, I have occupied an internal combustion engine almost exactly once per year.

It's not just been doable, I'm in the best shape I've been in twenty years.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually have a picture of my Opa delivering bread in the 1920s with a cargo bike (bakfiets) in the Netherlands.

That's really cool. I had no idea they went back that far.

https://mechaniccycling.com/blogs/blog/a-visual-history-of-t...

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#266
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ebikes, though a bit more expensive, make getting over the hills in even SF doable

I'm not willing to spend thousands on an ebike while living in a city where I expect my bike to be stolen at least once a year. (and all of my bikes that were stolen, were stolen out of locked garages!)

Even 1 bike per year isn't that bad if you have insurance, car maintenance + depreciation is probably more. Not to mention when your catalytic converter gets stolen.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#267

That's great. Assuming the following: - Your commute is sufficiently short - You have facilities to shower and dress at work - You have sufficient time to shower and dress at work - You don't have to bring kids or sizable cargo - Weather is sufficiently good - You're sufficiently healthy

I'll note safety of cycling is a big concern of mine, and by far the biggest reason I do not generally bicycle to commute, and only do it for leisure off roads whenever possible. Cycling is roughly 2x as dangerous as driving (1) to the person themselves per mile travelled and motorcycling is 35 times as dangerous (2). Electric bikes are probably somewhere in the middle. I am hoping once we get humans off the road, cy…

Cycling safety is definitely something to think about.

However, I also feel that one should think about the safety of other road users when choosing one's transport method.

Your first reference notes that "over half of the deaths in car crashes were to road users other than the drivers themselves". Looking at Fig 1., fatal cycling accidents that didn't involve cars were almost all (~92%) fatal to the cyclist rather than to other road users.

EDIT: And then there's the contribution to air pollution-related deaths to think about as well, see e.g. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nearly-9-500... (2015), and I guess more broadly the contribution to climate-change related fatalities. I appreciate these are difficult to measure.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#268
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put on a coat/rain jacket

Jacket might be ok for small rain, but for heavy rain and thunderstorm? No. Employers expect employees to come to work every business day, and people expect business to open every business day, even under heavy rain and thunderstorm. Watch! Heavy rain/wind! Most people can't go to work! Most businesses are closed! Teachers can't go to schools! Nurses can't go to clinics and hospitals! What a ridiculous picture of a m…

I'm almost 60. I'm not a jock. I bike everywhere.

Try again.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#269

That's great. Assuming the following: - Your commute is sufficiently short - You have facilities to shower and dress at work - You have sufficient time to shower and dress at work - You don't have to bring kids or sizable cargo - Weather is sufficiently good - You're sufficiently healthy

I think you're approaching this from the wrong direction (the article's framing doesn't really help). It's about how we allocate funds at a high level, not that every city needs to have an equal amount of cycling. From a climate change perspective, we care little about where we take cars off the road. So while it's true that Siberia won't ever be bike-first, we should understand that each person we can get to transit…

> we care little about where we take cars off the road.

as someone who almost completely abandoned the car, even though I live in Rome, one of the most car crowded cities in the West (and probably the World), if we care about taking cars off the road, we need to make cities walkable

Many areas of Rome already are and have been by design, because pedestrians and cars don't compete for the same space and there are large enough sidewalks

in the city centre where streets are narrow, cars usually drive very very slowly, because the road is occupied by people walking and have precedence

But when pedestrian share the space with other vehicles, like in car restricted areas, that's where things start to get unpleasant if not impossible

bikes, electric bikes, scooters they all make walking difficult to the point that pedestrian need to be careful about them more than with cars

in this covid times with virtually no cars for Rome standards, my biggest concern when I am around is avoiding riders and their bikes, they are everywhere and respect no rule.

I can be relatively sure that on a one way only street no car is gonna suddenly appear from the wrong direction, not so much with bikes (and other two wheeled vehicles) especially because they are extremely quiet

this is my experience after 45 years as a Roman citizen and 7 years without a car

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#270
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn't require major investments. It's really minor investments compared to other infrastructure projects. The issue is taking away even a tiny fraction of car space basically triggers some kind of political road rage.

I don't know if you've ever driven in an American city, but those streets can barely fit a single lane of car traffic in some cases. Philadelphia in particular has streets so narrow that the line of parked cars along the side is enough to basically block the whole street. It's already incredibly uncomfortable to drive on those streets, so I don't get why you're so surprised that people would be angry about further in…

It should not be comfortable to drive around in a city. You are in a place with lots of people you can harm with your vehicle if you drive around fast, you should be driving slowly and paying close attention to your surroundings.

Proper bicycle infrastructure (separated bike lanes etc.) and quality public transportation is the solution - the comfortable option should generally be to take a train/metro/bus/tram/boat.

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