Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities • Hacker News Board

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#181

Post by JoeAltmaier » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 7:13 PM UTC

ab111111111 wrote: post #60

jedberg wrote: post #35

Switching from gas to electric is something I can do all on my own. Switching from gas car to cycling is something that would require major investments from my city and developers. Both are noble goals, but let's not let perfect be the enemy of good. Switch to electric now, and also encourage new roads and new developments to be bike friendly, so that switching to a bike is something that will be viable in 20 or 30 y…

What major investment would be required from the city or developers to set up cycling infrastructure? Painting some cycle lanes onto the roads? Marking a few car parking places as bike parking places? That's all that cycling infrastructure really is, so it's super cheap. A lot cheaper than, say, building charging stations for electric cars.

My town painted a few lanes. Bike deaths didn't change. Bike ridership didn't increase.

Paint doesn't do squat for making car lanes safe for bikes.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#182

Post by temp8964 » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 7:13 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #121

Aerroon wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you do in winter? Or during rain?

Put on a coat/rain jacket

Jacket might be ok for small rain, but for heavy rain and thunderstorm? No.

Employers expect employees to come to work every business day, and people expect business to open every business day, even under heavy rain and thunderstorm.

Watch! Heavy rain/wind! Most people can't go to work! Most businesses are closed! Teachers can't go to schools! Nurses can't go to clinics and hospitals! What a ridiculous picture of a modern city.

New proposal: this city only allows residents who are 20s/30s years old and healthy and fit.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#183

Post by TulliusCicero » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 7:13 PM UTC

CabSauce wrote: post #10

That's great. Assuming the following: - Your commute is sufficiently short - You have facilities to shower and dress at work - You have sufficient time to shower and dress at work - You don't have to bring kids or sizable cargo - Weather is sufficiently good - You're sufficiently healthy

Yeah it's not like many cities all over the world already have 10%+ biking numbers, pack it up everyone, it's an impossible problem.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#184

Post by imnotlost » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

If you want me to ride my bike more on the street I need physical barriers between me and the people who happen to be driving a car while texting, tweeting, snapping selfies, napping, etc.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#185

Post by closeparen » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

stfp wrote: post #150

jedberg wrote: post #35

Switching from gas to electric is something I can do all on my own. Switching from gas car to cycling is something that would require major investments from my city and developers. Both are noble goals, but let's not let perfect be the enemy of good. Switch to electric now, and also encourage new roads and new developments to be bike friendly, so that switching to a bike is something that will be viable in 20 or 30 y…

But it doesn't require major investments. It's really minor investments compared to other infrastructure projects. The issue is taking away even a tiny fraction of car space basically triggers some kind of political road rage.

Cycling is suited to distances of a few miles. Within a few miles of a sprawl house there are only other sprawl houses. The mix and layout of buildings and uses also needs to be overhauled so that putting reasonable numbers of hours/calories into a bike gets you somewhere useful.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#186

Post by twiddling » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

analog31 wrote: post #125

jedberg wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dutch have solved the kids/cargo problem. My friend lives in a suburb of Amsterdam. She has an electric assist bike with a cargo carrier. She uses it to carry kids and cargo, like groceries and such. She used it to carry four kids (her three and one of mine) when we visited. We took the rented car and she beat us there.

In my view, the most striking feature of the Dutch solution is that it's not a type of bike, but a transportation system developed over a span of years within a specific niche of climate, terrain, population density, and so forth. Cargo bikes came after the system was already up and running. Moving any specific component of that system to another niche might help a little, and I'd welcome any progress, but is not a s…

I actually have a picture of my Opa delivering bread in the 1920s with a cargo bike (bakfiets) in the Netherlands.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#187

Post by estebank » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

luckylion wrote: post #170

stfp wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn't require major investments. It's really minor investments compared to other infrastructure projects. The issue is taking away even a tiny fraction of car space basically triggers some kind of political road rage.

> The issue is taking away even a tiny fraction of car space basically triggers some kind of political road rage. How do you take "a tiny fraction" away from a street that has one lane in each direction to build a dedicated bike lane? Make it a one-way street and just kill traffic? It's not as simple as you make it out to be. Don't infer motivations, I don't own a car and ride my bike everywhere. It's mostly a money…

In a significant portion of the US "high density" looks like this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7474901,-122.4878233,3a,75y,...

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#188

Post by moistbar » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

stfp wrote: post #150

jedberg wrote: post #35

Switching from gas to electric is something I can do all on my own. Switching from gas car to cycling is something that would require major investments from my city and developers. Both are noble goals, but let's not let perfect be the enemy of good. Switch to electric now, and also encourage new roads and new developments to be bike friendly, so that switching to a bike is something that will be viable in 20 or 30 y…

But it doesn't require major investments. It's really minor investments compared to other infrastructure projects. The issue is taking away even a tiny fraction of car space basically triggers some kind of political road rage.

I don't know if you've ever driven in an American city, but those streets can barely fit a single lane of car traffic in some cases. Philadelphia in particular has streets so narrow that the line of parked cars along the side is enough to basically block the whole street. It's already incredibly uncomfortable to drive on those streets, so I don't get why you're so surprised that people would be angry about further increasing their already quite high levels of discomfort.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#189

Post by briga » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

mchusma wrote: post #161

CabSauce wrote: post #10

That's great. Assuming the following: - Your commute is sufficiently short - You have facilities to shower and dress at work - You have sufficient time to shower and dress at work - You don't have to bring kids or sizable cargo - Weather is sufficiently good - You're sufficiently healthy

I'll note safety of cycling is a big concern of mine, and by far the biggest reason I do not generally bicycle to commute, and only do it for leisure off roads whenever possible. Cycling is roughly 2x as dangerous as driving (1) to the person themselves per mile travelled and motorcycling is 35 times as dangerous (2). Electric bikes are probably somewhere in the middle. I am hoping once we get humans off the road, cy…

I would assume cycling safety increases proportionally with bike infrastructure. Something tells me the people dying on bicycles aren't dying from collisions with other bicyclists. If you have adequate infrastructure bike safety starts to become a marginal concern.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#190

Post by JoeAltmaier » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

acwan93 wrote: post #69

There's a demonization of cyclists in general if you live in an American city. Until this stigma goes away, which will usher in infrastructure and mentality changes, this will not occur. City councils believe cycling is recreational, not for commuting or for "real" use. I mentioned this about getting my LA suburb to actually embrace Class II bike lanes previously, and there's simply no political will. Simply put, it'…

Yeah our local town council has bike paths under dept of Recreation. So they go from nowhere to nowhere. And they get closed for 6 months because some truck got parked on it for some unrelated construction project. And they don't get repaired or even maintained adequately.