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Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

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Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're minor investments practically, and major investments politically. As you say, for many motorists, giving up space on even some roads to cyclists is treated like some sort of war crime. There's very much of attitude of, "we can't just have a majority of the road space -- we need nearly all of it!"

Spoken like someone who's never driven in a city. City streets are narrow and extremely uncomfortable to drive on as it is.

>City streets are narrow and extremely uncomfortable to drive on as it is.

I agree. I live in a city and am constantly afraid of all the gigantic cars that fly by me whenever I walk anywhere. I'm also constantly (albeit much less) afraid of someone stepping out onto the street when they're not supposed to and not being able to stop in time. But maybe, just maybe, the cars (that get bigger every year) are the problem? Maybe instead of declaring that roads are for cars and roads are too small so nothing can be improved, we could make it easier to get around cities without a car?

I just find it ridiculous that anyone who lives in a city has to live with the fact that a 3 inch curb is all that's stopping a massive hunk of metal from running them over. I find it ridiculous that bike (or non-car) lanes are considered evil because of the idea that not being able to park directly in front of your destination means that no one will go there. And I say this as someone who drives a car and rides a bike in a city, because I'm well aware that a lot of people who ride bikes do so in a very unsafe way. But I'd take getting hit by someone on a bike over getting hit by even a moped every single time.

People live in cities, not cars. I shouldn't have to fear for my life while walking down the street.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We use snow plows up here in Canada.

That's great for the hour after the snowplow passes, but what about after that? Snow + ice on a bike is a pretty easy crash. Even a slow speed crash on a bike can break bones, unlike cars.

Snowplows don't remove all the snow usually because it would damage the road a lot, so you are left with packed snow which is fine to ride on.

You can also use studs tires if you worry.

I ride my bike in Sweden frequently even with a lot of snow without trouble. The only thing to worry about is when spring comes and the snow melts by day and freezes at night but on the main bicycle lanes the problem is solved by salting them once the weather gets mild.

I use a regular gravel bike (so not huge tires, 38mm) without stubs tires. Never fell.

I just don't ride during snowstorms directly of course but in those cases even buses and trains can be canceled until it calms down a bit.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it replaced 2000 miles. If the average person puts 10k-15k on a car, it sounds like you only used it on a few little trips around the neighborhood. You're making my point for me. I'm not saying bikes don't work. I'm just saying that there are many times that they don't work. And it sounds like you're a bike lover and even then, you couldn't replace 8k-13k a year of car travel. And I'll note that you're using an el…

If most people managed to reduce their car driving by 2000 miles per year, I fail to see how that is a bad thing.

IT's not. But my point is that you still need cars for the other 5k++ miles. I'm not saying that bike riding isn't nice, merely that it is not possible for many, many people during many, many parts of the year.

Okay, some hipster with two young kids can take a saturday jaunt on a super-long, super-expensive electric bike, but that's not going to work for most people when it's cold, dark and rainy.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#254
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What major investment would be required from the city or developers to set up cycling infrastructure? Painting some cycle lanes onto the roads? Marking a few car parking places as bike parking places? That's all that cycling infrastructure really is, so it's super cheap. A lot cheaper than, say, building charging stations for electric cars.

From personal experience in town meetings: * City roads are narrow and don't have empty space just waiting to be painted green. Bike lanes will cost you parking spots or a car travel lane. This gets huge pushback. * Dangerous drivers must be removed from roads. You can be hit, killed even, with video evidence and the driver may escape punishment entirely. * Cities (or specifically NIMBY residents) must stop resisting…

Dangerous must be removed from roads. There is a non-negligible amount of bikers skipping red lights, or using the sidewalk (forbidden in many cities), or even going the opposite way on one-way streets. The rationale in most cases is that a bike is not a motor vehicle and thus should not observe the same rules. This is a problem even in a scenario without cars, as it leads to collision vs. other bicyclists or pedestrians.

This behaviour from a few individuals pushes anti-bikers to protest even more, making it harder for these initiatives to thrive.

As ridiculous as it sounds, a deterrent similar to a license plate may become a necessity.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#255
post #57

That's great. Assuming the following: - Your commute is sufficiently short - You have facilities to shower and dress at work - You have sufficient time to shower and dress at work - You don't have to bring kids or sizable cargo - Weather is sufficiently good - You're sufficiently healthy

The Dutch have solved the kids/cargo problem. My friend lives in a suburb of Amsterdam. She has an electric assist bike with a cargo carrier. She uses it to carry kids and cargo, like groceries and such. She used it to carry four kids (her three and one of mine) when we visited. We took the rented car and she beat us there.

Netherlands is not a good benchmark for the rest of the World where altitude it's a thing

> The Vaalserberg is a hill with a height of 322.4 metres (1,058 ft) above NAP and is the highest point in mainland Netherlands

before anyone gets the wrong idea, the biggest problem is not going up, but going down (especially with kids, cargo or kids+cargo)

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#256
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dutch would disagree with you pretty much with every single point. Except the last one, maybe.

Until they had to bike in Canadian winter? Or on SF hills? Or 30 Km to work with 2 kids to drop of 8 Km in the other direction? The Netherlands is nearly a perfect place for biking, which is why they bike.

Well, obvious places less suited for biking is going to be obviously less suited for biking.

Just as driving a car in Venice, in a jungle, or up to the summit of Mount Everest is not optimal.

That said, biking in Swedish winter works just fine. We plow our bike paths as well as roads, and get on with our lives.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe a lot of bicycle hate in middle class American culture is a result of propaganda from big oil corporate lobbying. I also read somewhere recently a theory that big cars are a way of protecting (even just psychologically) wealthy people from reality as they have to travel through areas of poverty to get from one wealthy pocket to another. Makes sense when recalling Rob Moses's work with nyc

> I also read somewhere recently a theory that big cars are a way of protecting (even just psychologically) wealthy people from reality as they have to travel through areas of poverty to get from one wealthy pocket to another. That theory seems to arise from a disgust for the wealthy (rightly or wrongly) as opposed to an earnest evaluation. I would put money on the theory that big cars can have more nice things in th…

Yeah maybe, that same article argued that SUVs aren't actually safer though. Wish I could find it, I think I found it via HN

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#258
Only when cities completely ban car travel will cycling increase. Cars are currently first class road users. They get extra protection and sympathy from the police. All infrastructure is built for them with cycling infrastructure being laughable and often regressive. On top of that, most people are just too fat and lazy to cycle by choice.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#259
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people cycle to work in Finland in the winter. This also applies in the northern parts like Oulu. All you need is a good cycling network that is properly maintained in the winter and people will use it. A okish video about winter biking https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU Basically the temperature does not really matter much. It has more to do with the maintenance. If the cycling paths exist and are in good conditi…

I have a hard time seeing there being much cycling in winter. Icy conditions are scary on a bicycle. All it takes is for snow to cover some ice and the bicycle can simply slip out from under you. Not only that. It's also possible for temperature to be above 0 during the day, but drop to below freezing in the evening/at night. You might not even realize that some of the bike paths are icy. I had that happen a few year…

Did you actually watch the video? It went into most of your complaints but here we go.

> I have a hard time seeing there being much cycling in winter.

And yet we got schools with 1000 out of the 1200 students cycling to school in -17c weather in Oulu. Out of the rest 100 to 150 walked and a couple took kicksleds.

https://twitter.com/pekkatahkola/status/1093297261604265985

> Icy conditions are scary on a bicycle.

Me (and a few million other Finns and Swedes and Norwegians and ...) would disagree.

> All it takes is for snow to cover some ice and the bicycle can simply slip out from under you.

This is why we maintain the roads. Also studded tires exist for bikes too but are rarely used here (Finland)

> It's also possible for temperature to be above 0 during the day, but drop to below freezing in the evening/at night.

Does happen. But again maintain your roads. Not really a problem on its own. Only if you let cars drive on the hard packed snow that has now melted which creates huge grooves that then freeze. Solved by not allowing cars on the bike paths.

> Another problem with cycling in the snow is that it's way harder. You need much wider and softer tires, but this also means that you need to put in more energy.

I rode the exact same bike summer and winter with the same quite narrow tires meant for asphalt (never had studded tires on my bicycle) for the last 25+ years and still do. Well not the same bike over all the years but only ever owned 1 bike at the same time.

Actually now that I think about it is a bit harder when really cold (think -25c) but not for the reason you said. The grease/oil in your chains, ball bearings, etc starts to gel up making it harder. Could probably fix it by changing the oils but nobody bothers with that. Just cycle harder (or slower and accept the commute taking 5 minutes longer)

> Going uphill is a pain.

Just cycle harder. You will get in shape quite fast. If you have proper gears it is not a big problem (outside of some extreme hills that are pain in the ass to even walk up)

> You'll also sweat in the coat.

Don't wear too thick of a coat or just open it up a bit.

> Batteries for ebikes don't work as well in the cold either.

Based on comments from my friends they work just fine. We have electric cars here and they work too.

> I think you pretty much need an alternative transportation system for winter.

Again watch the video I linked about winter biking.

Basically riding in the rain is much more of pain in the ass.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#260
post #35

Switching from gas to electric is something I can do all on my own. Switching from gas car to cycling is something that would require major investments from my city and developers. Both are noble goals, but let's not let perfect be the enemy of good. Switch to electric now, and also encourage new roads and new developments to be bike friendly, so that switching to a bike is something that will be viable in 20 or 30 y…

It's a tiny, tiny investment compared with almost any other investment a city can make.

> switching to a bike is something that will be viable in 20 or 30 years

20 or 30 years? I'll be dead of old age!

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