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Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

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Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#171

Post by sokoloff »

dfgdghdf wrote: post #139
CabSauce wrote: post #10

That's great. Assuming the following: - Your commute is sufficiently short - You have facilities to shower and dress at work - You have sufficient time to shower and dress at work - You don't have to bring kids or sizable cargo - Weather is sufficiently good - You're sufficiently healthy

> Your commute is sufficiently short Cities are usually quite small in area. USA is an exception to this but that is due to car dependency. We can't reverse care dependency if we continue to pander to it. In London, the average speed of traffic is much lower than a gentle cycle. For longer distances, municipalities should focus on rail infrastructure. You might also consider an e-bike, which can double or triple your…

From your reply, I'm guessing snow isn't much of a factor where you live.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#172

Post by gowld »

bko wrote: post #98
ab111111111 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What major investment would be required from the city or developers to set up cycling infrastructure? Painting some cycle lanes onto the roads? Marking a few car parking places as bike parking places? That's all that cycling infrastructure really is, so it's super cheap. A lot cheaper than, say, building charging stations for electric cars.

$12 million a mile: Here’s how bike-lane costs shot sky high in Seattle The larger and more ambitious the project the greater the costs. I imagine a massive upgrade would be even more expensive https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/12-...

Most of that cost was for preserving driving lanes while adding bike lanes. It could just as well be called the cost of car lanes.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#173

Post by kubariet »

garyrichardson wrote: post #122
ab111111111 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What major investment would be required from the city or developers to set up cycling infrastructure? Painting some cycle lanes onto the roads? Marking a few car parking places as bike parking places? That's all that cycling infrastructure really is, so it's super cheap. A lot cheaper than, say, building charging stations for electric cars.

I live on the west coast in Canada. We have lots of bike lines. It's 30KM of them up and down multiple hills (most people would consider mountains) for me to get to work. Realistically, you've got to convince me to leave my 3000+sqft house (with bedrooms for all my kids) and yard to move to a 1000sqft apartment in the city (and make my kids share a room) and take on a bigger mortgage so that I'm closer to work. Also…

A more realistic proposal is making your neighborhood slightly denser and more pedestrian/bike/transit friendly. Most of the neighborhood can remain single family homes, but a central area should be slightly denser (3ish story buildings with retail on the bottom floor and residential apartments above). Your major transportation needs can now avoid cars in the following ways:

1. This central area should have a connection to a frequent public transit option which can get you to your job. BRT would be the easiest to roll out, but the ideal for most people would probably be some sort of medium/commuter rail with decent WiFi onboard and enough seating/frequent enough trains so that the average commuter can sit and work if they'd like. Obviously this won't take everyone out of their car, but the majority of commuters in your neighborhood could use this instead since it would be faster and more convenient. Ideally there would be trains/buses running at least every 10 minutes.

2. Because there is a retail area close to your residence you can realistically walk/bike to get groceries and do routine errands. Bike paths in your residential neighborhood make this easier because they feel (and are) much safer for everyday people to use instead of sharing streets with cars. Ideally the paths are safe enough for you to feel comfortable with your elderly relatives or children biking on them.

This is obviously very different from how North American suburbs are set up today and would require a large amount of investment and changes in the way that we do public policy and planning. However, it is certainly possible to have suburbs that are bike/pedestrian friendly if you put the infrastructure in place to do so.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#174

Post by dfgdghdf »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #104
kalenx wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting up a cycle lane in place is cheap, but not easy (at least in North America, people will always complain about the "war on cars"). Also, setting up a good cycle lane can be more expensive than you think. If you have a nice bike lane that spreads over 5 km but there's a 200 meters gap in it because of a bridge which was too narrow to keep the bike path, then you don't have a nice lane at all.

I've never understood why bicyclists can't just use the sidewalk for most of the commute. I get that it becomes impractical in dense areas where people are actually walking but most of the roads I travel along have vacant sidewalks.

* It's illegal in most countries

* It tends to be busy with pedestrians (not everywhere, as you mention)

* It's not safe when crossing side-roads

* It's inefficient if you walk at junctions

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#176

Post by sokoloff »

Fricken wrote: post #166
sokoloff wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For cold or rain? Sure. For 4-6" of snow, you're going to need a lot more than a jacket to cycle in that.

We use snow plows up here in Canada.

On the bike paths as well? That's very progressive of Canada. We don't do that effectively here in Massachusetts.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#177

Post by TulliusCicero »

chmod775 wrote: post #123
acwan93 wrote: post #69

There's a demonization of cyclists in general if you live in an American city. Until this stigma goes away, which will usher in infrastructure and mentality changes, this will not occur. City councils believe cycling is recreational, not for commuting or for "real" use. I mentioned this about getting my LA suburb to actually embrace Class II bike lanes previously, and there's simply no political will. Simply put, it'…

> City councils believe cycling is recreational, not for commuting or for "real" use. And nobody gives them a talking to? If any official said that here they would never live down the humiliation. They'd be the butt of every joke for weeks. Some societies appear to tolerate stupid ideas that I'd be afraid to say out loud. Or maybe nobody actually believes that. Is there actually someone from a city council or whoever…

There are hardly any active commuting cyclists in most cities, so no. Anyone who speaks up is outnumbered 50x by motorists who feel extremely entitled to never have to see a bike.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#178

Post by zucker42 »

ab111111111 wrote: post #60
jedberg wrote: post #35

Switching from gas to electric is something I can do all on my own. Switching from gas car to cycling is something that would require major investments from my city and developers. Both are noble goals, but let's not let perfect be the enemy of good. Switch to electric now, and also encourage new roads and new developments to be bike friendly, so that switching to a bike is something that will be viable in 20 or 30 y…

What major investment would be required from the city or developers to set up cycling infrastructure? Painting some cycle lanes onto the roads? Marking a few car parking places as bike parking places? That's all that cycling infrastructure really is, so it's super cheap. A lot cheaper than, say, building charging stations for electric cars.

If you want a good impression of the type of shift that it's going to take to make U.S. streets more bike friendly, you can watch the great YouTube channel NotJustBikes, which overviews some of way the Netherlands' infrastructure is built from the ground up to be not car dependent. While the investment required to build physical bike infrastructure is small compared to other infrastructure projects, building cities for bikes requires overcoming political opposition and indifference, rethinking zoning laws and other harmful, bureaucratic rules and slowly reshaping cities to not rely on cars. It's not simply a matter of chucking a line of paint on a 35 mph road and then complaining when cyclists don't use it.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#179

Post by TulliusCicero »

abrowne wrote: post #120
acwan93 wrote: post #69

There's a demonization of cyclists in general if you live in an American city. Until this stigma goes away, which will usher in infrastructure and mentality changes, this will not occur. City councils believe cycling is recreational, not for commuting or for "real" use. I mentioned this about getting my LA suburb to actually embrace Class II bike lanes previously, and there's simply no political will. Simply put, it'…

Depends on the city? Minneapolis-St. Paul has ok cycling infrastructure for North America that certainly could be improved, but I don't see a negative attitude

Wait until you try to replace some car parking lanes with protected bike or bus lanes to improve throughput.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#180

Post by germinalphrase »

sokoloff wrote: post #152
umvi wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put on a coat/rain jacket

For cold or rain? Sure. For 4-6" of snow, you're going to need a lot more than a jacket to cycle in that.

Chiming in from Minneapolis, major bike paths/routes are generally plowed just as often as the roads. It can be a hurdle, but it’s not as bad as you might think.
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