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Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

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Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#131
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large parts of the population are too old and infirm to drive safely any distance.

And so? Would they be able to handle a bike? I don't think so. The point is that large parts of the population can't make the transition to this bike shangrila because of age and/or health.

That's why urban density allowing for frequent public transport is a necessity that happens to also integrate well with cycling infrastructure.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#132
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people cycle to work in Finland in the winter. This also applies in the northern parts like Oulu. All you need is a good cycling network that is properly maintained in the winter and people will use it. A okish video about winter biking https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU Basically the temperature does not really matter much. It has more to do with the maintenance. If the cycling paths exist and are in good conditi…

"All you need is a good cycling network that is properly maintained in the winter and people will use it." If you're going to invest in infrastructure, I would think that investments in public transit will be more palatable to the taxpayers.

Invest in both. Both are needed.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#133
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting up a cycle lane in place is cheap, but not easy (at least in North America, people will always complain about the "war on cars"). Also, setting up a good cycle lane can be more expensive than you think. If you have a nice bike lane that spreads over 5 km but there's a 200 meters gap in it because of a bridge which was too narrow to keep the bike path, then you don't have a nice lane at all.

I've never understood why bicyclists can't just use the sidewalk for most of the commute. I get that it becomes impractical in dense areas where people are actually walking but most of the roads I travel along have vacant sidewalks.

The most dangerous part of a sidewalk for a cyclist are places where they intersect roads. Drivers just aren't expecting sidewalk users moving at bike speeds.

Some areas have long stretches of sidewalk without intersections those are fine for cycling assuming they have little pedestrian traffic or are wide enough to pass safely.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#134
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people cycle to work in Finland in the winter. This also applies in the northern parts like Oulu. All you need is a good cycling network that is properly maintained in the winter and people will use it. A okish video about winter biking https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU Basically the temperature does not really matter much. It has more to do with the maintenance. If the cycling paths exist and are in good conditi…

"All you need is a good cycling network that is properly maintained in the winter and people will use it." If you're going to invest in infrastructure, I would think that investments in public transit will be more palatable to the taxpayers.

In the cities we do invest in that too. Also cycling is superior (faster, cheaper, more convenient) to public transport for short enough trips.

Also public transport and cycling are not opposites of each other. Here in Helsinki a lot of people cycle to the train or metro station and then take that to the city for their commute. You can also take your bike into the train or metro here if that works better for you.

People also drive their cars to the metro/train station and do the same. Parking can be really expensive (and hard to find) in the center if you happen to work there. For example my work place (a bit over 100 person IT company office) we have a total of 2 car parking spots for the whole company that you reserve in a google sheet when you need it.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#135
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting up a cycle lane in place is cheap, but not easy (at least in North America, people will always complain about the "war on cars"). Also, setting up a good cycle lane can be more expensive than you think. If you have a nice bike lane that spreads over 5 km but there's a 200 meters gap in it because of a bridge which was too narrow to keep the bike path, then you don't have a nice lane at all.

I've never understood why bicyclists can't just use the sidewalk for most of the commute. I get that it becomes impractical in dense areas where people are actually walking but most of the roads I travel along have vacant sidewalks.

Assuming we're not talking about the extra-wide sidewalks common in city centers which sometimes also host designated bike lanes, ordinary sidewalks that I've seen throughout the US and Europe are nowhere near wide enough to fit even a single cyclist passing alongside a pedestrian without a risk of collision. Add multiple pedestrians walking alongside each other, other hazards such as parked cars, less competent cyclists such as children, or pets (on or off leashes) and it quickly becomes a recipe for disaster for one or both of the sidewalk users.

Also, bicyclists in cities tend to travel closer to the speeds of cars than pedestrians, and tend to have more similar dynamics such as turning radius and stopping distance which infrastructure for cars is already designed around. Additionally, car drivers are licensed and there is an expectation of awareness that they must exhibit. This makes it far easier to place slower-moving "hazards" in their path than adding faster-moving vehicles in the path of pedestrians.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#136
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What major investment would be required from the city or developers to set up cycling infrastructure? Painting some cycle lanes onto the roads? Marking a few car parking places as bike parking places? That's all that cycling infrastructure really is, so it's super cheap. A lot cheaper than, say, building charging stations for electric cars.

$12 million a mile: Here’s how bike-lane costs shot sky high in Seattle The larger and more ambitious the project the greater the costs. I imagine a massive upgrade would be even more expensive https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/12-...

Considering what is spent on roads, like for instance, an overpass, is that even very much?

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#137
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, without cars we would need no lanes.

How will good be moved? How will the infirm get around? I admire the cyclist ideal that they are fixing the problems of the world by not driving/owning cars... but it seems like a very superficial, quasi-moralistic solution that's really not likely to have the impact that is desired/needed.

Yes it would require radically rethinking how a lot of cities are designed, definitely a distant goalpost

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#138
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, without cars we would need no lanes.

How will good be moved? How will the infirm get around? I admire the cyclist ideal that they are fixing the problems of the world by not driving/owning cars... but it seems like a very superficial, quasi-moralistic solution that's really not likely to have the impact that is desired/needed.

No dude, there would still be cars for these use cases, come on. All we need is some protected bike lanes, maybe like 10% of the space allocated to cars.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#139

That's great. Assuming the following: - Your commute is sufficiently short - You have facilities to shower and dress at work - You have sufficient time to shower and dress at work - You don't have to bring kids or sizable cargo - Weather is sufficiently good - You're sufficiently healthy

> Your commute is sufficiently short

Cities are usually quite small in area. USA is an exception to this but that is due to car dependency. We can't reverse care dependency if we continue to pander to it. In London, the average speed of traffic is much lower than a gentle cycle. For longer distances, municipalities should focus on rail infrastructure. You might also consider an e-bike, which can double or triple your range as a cyclist.

> You have facilities to shower and dress at work

Cycling at a moderate pace does not make you any sweatier than public transport . With adequate infrastructure, cycling in a city can be leisurely, rather than a battle against motor traffic. Riding a bike is not the same as racing a bike, much like how walking is not the same as running.

> You have sufficient time to shower and dress at work

Presumably you have to shower somewhere. What difference does it make if it is before or after your commute?

> You don't have to bring kids or sizable cargo

Cargo bikes are remarkably efficient and can carry two small children. They are cheaper than a car too. Older children can cycle. Did you know 75% of dutch teenagers cycle to school? However, we need infrastructure where people feel safe to do this. For occasional journeys a car may still be required, but that's fine, we are targeting the 90% case here.

> Weather is sufficiently good

Cycling away from traffic in the rain with fenders and a jacket is no worse than walking. Toughen up?

> You're sufficiently healthy

In The Netherlands, disabled and elderly people can use powered scooters and wheel chairs on the cycle paths. This gives them independence even after losing their driving license. In other countries, they would likely end up in a home. For those who must use a car, that is still an option. Traffic is actually reduced since cycle lanes have much greater carrying capacity in terms of _people_.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#140

That's great. Assuming the following: - Your commute is sufficiently short - You have facilities to shower and dress at work - You have sufficient time to shower and dress at work - You don't have to bring kids or sizable cargo - Weather is sufficiently good - You're sufficiently healthy

Most of the world over the next 50 years will live in hot, big, Asian and African cities with >1M or >10M people. Vast transit networks will be the primary form of commute for those billions, not bicycles. Electric cars, vans, busses will solve the last few miles and support the cargo use cases.

It's telling that the most of the examples in the article and in the comments are about tiny shrinking European towns (lol, Copenhagen).

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