Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hey, without cars we would need no lanes.
What do you do in winter? Or during rain?
Put on a coat/rain jacket
Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities
121–130 of 764 posts
Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities
#122Switching from gas to electric is something I can do all on my own. Switching from gas car to cycling is something that would require major investments from my city and developers. Both are noble goals, but let's not let perfect be the enemy of good. Switch to electric now, and also encourage new roads and new developments to be bike friendly, so that switching to a bike is something that will be viable in 20 or 30 y…
What major investment would be required from the city or developers to set up cycling infrastructure? Painting some cycle lanes onto the roads? Marking a few car parking places as bike parking places? That's all that cycling infrastructure really is, so it's super cheap. A lot cheaper than, say, building charging stations for electric cars.
I live on the west coast in Canada. We have lots of bike lines. It's 30KM of them up and down multiple hills (most people would consider mountains) for me to get to work.
Realistically, you've got to convince me to leave my 3000+sqft house (with bedrooms for all my kids) and yard to move to a 1000sqft apartment in the city (and make my kids share a room) and take on a bigger mortgage so that I'm closer to work. Also how do I get groceries for a family of 5 home on my bike?
Life for the majority of people where I live has not been set up to be bicycle friendly and bike lanes don't change that barrier.
Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities
#123There's a demonization of cyclists in general if you live in an American city. Until this stigma goes away, which will usher in infrastructure and mentality changes, this will not occur. City councils believe cycling is recreational, not for commuting or for "real" use. I mentioned this about getting my LA suburb to actually embrace Class II bike lanes previously, and there's simply no political will. Simply put, it'…
> City councils believe cycling is recreational, not for commuting or for "real" use.
And nobody gives them a talking to? If any official said that here they would never live down the humiliation. They'd be the butt of every joke for weeks.
Some societies appear to tolerate stupid ideas that I'd be afraid to say out loud. Or maybe nobody actually believes that.
Is there actually someone from a city council or whoever on record saying that? I am doubtful.
It's not even this specific thing. There's a lot of "nothing going is going to happen because X believes Y" to go around that may just be straw men. Seems more like a defeatist attitude to me than something resembling reality.
Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities
#124Switching from gas to electric is something I can do all on my own. Switching from gas car to cycling is something that would require major investments from my city and developers. Both are noble goals, but let's not let perfect be the enemy of good. Switch to electric now, and also encourage new roads and new developments to be bike friendly, so that switching to a bike is something that will be viable in 20 or 30 y…
What major investment would be required from the city or developers to set up cycling infrastructure? Painting some cycle lanes onto the roads? Marking a few car parking places as bike parking places? That's all that cycling infrastructure really is, so it's super cheap. A lot cheaper than, say, building charging stations for electric cars.
Often in old European cities there is no space to take away from, unless you cut from pedestrian side, or rebuild whole block to have wider gap. Or you completely remove that single one way lane, and good bye resupplies for the shops/restaurants and good luck to those poor folks that will move in/away. The bigger the city, usually the older it is, and center looks like this - tons of single lane one-ways.
US roads always stroke me as super wide and at least those I saw myself had plenty of space for this.
One example to illustrate the difference - on say Swiss or French car parks, if you park perfectly in the center of the parking spot and if cars around you do the same, even with regular car (say BMW 3 series) you can't just open the door fully, often not even that half-open position in the middle. Significantly wider cars effectively take 2 spaces, but then again not many folks buy them here also for this reason.
Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities
#125That's great. Assuming the following: - Your commute is sufficiently short - You have facilities to shower and dress at work - You have sufficient time to shower and dress at work - You don't have to bring kids or sizable cargo - Weather is sufficiently good - You're sufficiently healthy
The Dutch have solved the kids/cargo problem. My friend lives in a suburb of Amsterdam. She has an electric assist bike with a cargo carrier. She uses it to carry kids and cargo, like groceries and such. She used it to carry four kids (her three and one of mine) when we visited. We took the rented car and she beat us there.
In my view, the most striking feature of the Dutch solution is that it's not a type of bike, but a transportation system developed over a span of years within a specific niche of climate, terrain, population density, and so forth. Cargo bikes came after the system was already up and running.
Moving any specific component of that system to another niche might help a little, and I'd welcome any progress, but is not a solution.
With that said, I'm a year around bike commuter. Cargo bikes, trailers, and baekfiets are gaining popularity in my locale, especially the electrics.
Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have two little kids. I also own an electric cargo bike. It has replaced over 2,000 car miles in the past year. I can bike to the grocery store, with two kids, and come back with a week's worth of groceries.
So it replaced 2000 miles. If the average person puts 10k-15k on a car, it sounds like you only used it on a few little trips around the neighborhood. You're making my point for me. I'm not saying bikes don't work. I'm just saying that there are many times that they don't work. And it sounds like you're a bike lover and even then, you couldn't replace 8k-13k a year of car travel. And I'll note that you're using an el…
If most people managed to reduce their car driving by 2000 miles per year, I fail to see how that is a bad thing.
Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it’s doable in Scandinavia I’d say it’s doable in the whole US too. It’s not comfortable some days, but it’s doable (disclaimer - I don’t do it even in nice weather but I pass a lot of people with my car that do).
Short urban commutes in winter are not an issue (or shortish commutes in Scandanavian high density population areas)... it's the idea of long commutes in rural areas and/or long commutes in rural areas during winter that is not just inconvenient but actually quite dangerous.
Where I live 20km from Stockholm it’s pretty common to ride year round at least. That’s around 45min to 1h. It’s definitely not very dense the first 10km, but no exactly rural either. Infrastructure is good though with separate bike paths more or less door to door, and some bike lanes once you reach the city limits (though not as good as class leading Copenhagen).
Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hey, without cars we would need no lanes.
How will good be moved? How will the infirm get around? I admire the cyclist ideal that they are fixing the problems of the world by not driving/owning cars... but it seems like a very superficial, quasi-moralistic solution that's really not likely to have the impact that is desired/needed.
Lower one’s expectations of quality of life and consume less.
Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities
#129Switching from gas to electric is something I can do all on my own. Switching from gas car to cycling is something that would require major investments from my city and developers. Both are noble goals, but let's not let perfect be the enemy of good. Switch to electric now, and also encourage new roads and new developments to be bike friendly, so that switching to a bike is something that will be viable in 20 or 30 y…
I agree - plus there's already enough culture war arguing just with EVs, now we're going to pivot to the NIMBY battlefield that is cycling?
Make progress where you can.
I'd love for their to be more cycling options (and things are way better than they used to be), but no reason to disincentivize transitioning to EVs too (or framing it as some battle between them).
Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hey, without cars we would need no lanes.
How will good be moved? How will the infirm get around? I admire the cyclist ideal that they are fixing the problems of the world by not driving/owning cars... but it seems like a very superficial, quasi-moralistic solution that's really not likely to have the impact that is desired/needed.
We need fewer roads and cars, not zero roads and cars. Think 2 lane road vs. 6 lane road.