Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities • Hacker News Board

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#101

Post by mprovost » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:51 PM UTC

olivermarks wrote: post #61

My sister and her husband were keen cyclists in London, despite constant bike theft and falls due to terrible road condition but they now have artificial knees and a bad back respectively and can't cycle. My sister in particular is incensed about the road blocks put up all over London that have resulted in several local deaths as emergency vehicles can't get through to attend to heart attacks etc. In dense urban area…

People dying because ambulances are delayed by low traffic areas in London is a myth started by the Daily Mail. There’s no evidence of it happening. In fact the ambulance services support these schemes. [0]

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/feb/13/covid-bike-a...

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#102

Post by cabernal » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:52 PM UTC

ab111111111 wrote: post #60

jedberg wrote: post #35

Switching from gas to electric is something I can do all on my own. Switching from gas car to cycling is something that would require major investments from my city and developers. Both are noble goals, but let's not let perfect be the enemy of good. Switch to electric now, and also encourage new roads and new developments to be bike friendly, so that switching to a bike is something that will be viable in 20 or 30 y…

What major investment would be required from the city or developers to set up cycling infrastructure? Painting some cycle lanes onto the roads? Marking a few car parking places as bike parking places? That's all that cycling infrastructure really is, so it's super cheap. A lot cheaper than, say, building charging stations for electric cars.

The trick is to get drivers to follow those markings. Where I live I see cars/trucks regularly park on bike lanes with little repercussion. Add to that a hostility between drivers and cyclists sharing the road; this might just be an issue where I live (Toronto)

Cycling lane poles would be ideal, but a lot of drivers push back on this since they see it as precious space being taken away from them.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#103

Post by jonnycomputer » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:52 PM UTC

jtdev wrote: post #74

cameronh90 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

15 miles is not that far. 45 minutes with a US (20MPH) e-bike. Average commute is 30 mins each way. And that's time you don't have to spend at the gym now.

You going to shower at work? How do you get your kids to school? Are you going to put them on the handlebars?

Well, I think you're right, kinda, but either their own bikes or in one of those carts you attach.

Shower at work? why, because you're sweaty? yeah, the humidity on East Coast is killer. I don't shower, but I keep a change of clothes at work.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#104

Post by BitwiseFool » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:52 PM UTC

kalenx wrote: post #79

ab111111111 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What major investment would be required from the city or developers to set up cycling infrastructure? Painting some cycle lanes onto the roads? Marking a few car parking places as bike parking places? That's all that cycling infrastructure really is, so it's super cheap. A lot cheaper than, say, building charging stations for electric cars.

Setting up a cycle lane in place is cheap, but not easy (at least in North America, people will always complain about the "war on cars"). Also, setting up a good cycle lane can be more expensive than you think. If you have a nice bike lane that spreads over 5 km but there's a 200 meters gap in it because of a bridge which was too narrow to keep the bike path, then you don't have a nice lane at all.

I've never understood why bicyclists can't just use the sidewalk for most of the commute. I get that it becomes impractical in dense areas where people are actually walking but most of the roads I travel along have vacant sidewalks.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#105

Post by glial » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:52 PM UTC

twiddling wrote: post #8

s0rce wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't this actionable? We are currently making significant public and private investments into electric cars based on their reduced emissions. Why not also invest in cycling infrastructure (beyond the very limited capacity that most US cities are currently doing)?

Because most US cities are not compact and flat as Copenhagen

Today, they aren't. But we could and should alter zoning laws to encourage density.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#106

Post by burlesona » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #81

burlesona wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, no. Surprisingly, telecommuters appear to drive more than office workers: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09658...

I'd like to dig into that study, because it feels impossible to me. Whether I work at home or an office, I have the same errands to run. Either way I'm going to plan my trip. The only thing I can think of is that I might spread out the errands more across the week since I don't have to do it after work. But anecdotally, my wife and I both started being home full time six years ago, and despite have kids since then (w…

I agree it’s surprising. I suspect it’s not an individual phenomenon, but a population level statistic, which is influenced by lifestyle preferences of remote workers versus office workers.

Suppose office workers are more likely to live in an urban center, and conversely remote workers are more likely to live in a rural area. If that delta is large then it would easily explain the trend, because it really isn’t telling us about office workers versus remote, but rather urban versus rural.

Anecdotally, about half the folks I know who have gone remote have moved out to rural areas.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#107

Post by twiddling » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

jtdev wrote: post #74

cameronh90 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

15 miles is not that far. 45 minutes with a US (20MPH) e-bike. Average commute is 30 mins each way. And that's time you don't have to spend at the gym now.

You going to shower at work? How do you get your kids to school? Are you going to put them on the handlebars?

Waiting for the bakfiets crowd to show up.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#108

Post by jtdev » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:54 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #56

jedberg wrote: post #35

Switching from gas to electric is something I can do all on my own. Switching from gas car to cycling is something that would require major investments from my city and developers. Both are noble goals, but let's not let perfect be the enemy of good. Switch to electric now, and also encourage new roads and new developments to be bike friendly, so that switching to a bike is something that will be viable in 20 or 30 y…

Hey, without cars we would need no lanes.

How will good be moved? How will the infirm get around? I admire the cyclist ideal that they are fixing the problems of the world by not driving/owning cars... but it seems like a very superficial, quasi-moralistic solution that's really not likely to have the impact that is desired/needed.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#109

Post by abfan1127 » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:54 PM UTC

refactor_master wrote: post #51

bluefirebrand wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- You live somewhere warm enough to bike year-round.

“There’s no such thing as bad weather”.

uhh, I tried cycling in Phoenix in Summer. When the heat from the sun above, the heat from the cement below, and the heat from the cars beside me, I quickly realized this is dumb. My commute was only 6 miles, and I arrived at home fully consumed 3 Liters of water with what appeared to be 3 Liters of sweat collected in my shirt and shorts. It also took an hour to cool down.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#110

Post by clairity » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:54 PM UTC

acwan93 wrote: post #69

There's a demonization of cyclists in general if you live in an American city. Until this stigma goes away, which will usher in infrastructure and mentality changes, this will not occur. City councils believe cycling is recreational, not for commuting or for "real" use. I mentioned this about getting my LA suburb to actually embrace Class II bike lanes previously, and there's simply no political will. Simply put, it'…

that's a manifestation of the power and perspective of wealthy residents more than sexiness or virtue signaling. it's the same reason why it's so hard to aggressively internalize the costs of sprawl, to in turn lay the groundwork of incentives to move cities in a meaningfully more sustainable direction (rather than the weak appearance of it).